HLTA covering two whole days every week?

[SuperSange]

Hi all; I've just found out that a HLTA in my daughters school is taking the class for two whole days a week. (Y3) we were told at the induction meeting that she was full time, but she has a full day PPA and another day for 'study', perhaps for an additional qualification, I do t know. I didn't know PPA was a full day, and surely they shouldn't have the TA for two full days? I'm minded to ask the school, but I'm not sure how to approach it with the head. Is it a common state of affairs, or is it worth asking?

@JohnPrescottsPyjamas PPA is not time off. It’s time to complete part of the job that needs to be done. And I have never seen a school where you can bank it and go shopping! Although many teachers do go to medical appointments ( hospital etc) in that time because they can’t get time off for them.
Admin hours are very similar in primary and secondary btw- numerous studies on this.

Welcome to the wonderful world of academies!

Teachers told you, years ago that it'd mean removing qualified staff to save money. As usual we were told we were moaning, it'd make us work harder.

Nope. It just results in the kids getting a poor experience and TAs being exploited.

It's unacceptable for both reasons.

Are you sure it is a full day PPA? A full time teacher is normally entitled to around 2.5 hours a week. I would check that this really is the case.

Bearing in mind that in order to teach you now need a degree, it seems a farce to have unqualified staff like myself fulfilling the same role.

It’s true that you need a degree to be a teacher, but someone with a degree in media studies and a recent PGCE won’t necessarily teach a class better than a TA with years of experience could.

Eh, I don't get the "in what other job do staff get time off to do planning" point. In lots of jobs, planning IS the job. And PPA is for necessary admin too, and in other jobs admin is 100% of the job. Would you expect thousands of office workers who do nothing but planning and admin, with the odd meeting thrown in to work for free? Or should they only be paid for 1 hour per day when they're in a meeting?

They may have years of experience as a TA but how is that better for teaching than teacher training?

What do you think teacher training IS??? It’s observation and practice. Which TAs do year after year after year.

Very common and perfectly legal.

I'm an ex HLTA with 15 years experience and I wouldn't want a HLTA teaching my child in place of a qualified teacher on a regular basis.

A huge number of Ta's and HTLA's are degree educated and beyond. Teaching responsibilities do not fit in with their family commitments so , they chose TA and HTLA roles. Is is not indicative of their qualifications or ability. PPA is essential for all teaching staff to lesson plan, prep and additional training. ALL teaching staff have PPA time. Your child's teacher will have allotted weekly PPA time.

This!

I’ve watched for the last 11 years I like to think I’ve mastered it now.

Pre children, I was a bank manager seeing customers either face to face or taking calls all day. Technically, I was employed 9 - 5. I used to get in before 8 AM and often had to stay late until 7:30PM in order to do my admin without interruption.

I can assure you, at the primary school were I was an HLTA, there would be no staff in the building after 4:15. They considered having to stay for a meeting until 5PM a late night! However, it’s possible the teachers at my school were an exception to the norm.

At my school they get paid £1 an hour extra any time they cover a class. As a teacher, I have to plan everything they do, even if I'm off sick. It is purely a cost-saving measure. The best solution for pupils in teacher absence is for a supply teacher to cover with a TA in the class who knows the children but long gone are the days when schools could afford that.

I did much more than simply observe and then practise during my training.

Teacher training is just observing and practice? Since when?

Very common. Teaching is no longer a popular profession to get in to, and can you blame people for not wanting to?

It's cheaper for schools. Primary schools generally don't have the same issues with recruitment as secondary schools do, it's exploitative imo.

Just because you worked for free @JohnPrescottsPyjamas doesn't mean anyone else should. My husband might spend most of a day preparing for a presentation as part of his job. Should he only be paid for the 30 minutes the presentation takes to deliver? Even if you think he should only be paid for 0.5 hours work rather than 6.5 hours, doesn't alter the fact that it is part of his job and he is paid for 6.5 hours of work. When I worked in academia, I would also spend much of my working day preparing presentations, or writing reports, or doing data analysis, for which I was paid. And why should I not have, it was all part of the job. In lots of jobs people are paid for preparation and admin, that's just a fact, and as I stated before, in some jobs, planning and admin IS the job. Your initial point was to question if any other jobs get paid for planning and admin. Of course they do, you know they do. Or are you really so unaware of what happens in the world of work that you didn't realise this?

Whilst they can cover lessons, technically they should only be covering a class following the planned prepared by the class teacher/school and working under the supervision of a qualified teacher. Reality means this is often not the case and many HLTAs are involved with planning, prep, delivery and assessment. Usually a cheaper alternative to a teacher doing it.

Absolutely spot on. That was always the best scenario.

Before the days of extreme cost cutting, as a TA I was always able to keep the continuity if we had a supply teacher. The pupils were happy because they knew I knew them and their needs etc. The supply teacher was happy because I could always advise them about different characters and what the expectations were when the usual teacher was present. Plus, I was available to quietly deal with or if necessary remove and work somewhere else with any child that struggled with a different adult in the classroom. Minimum disruption for everyone.

PPA has always been a bit of a joke to me. What other profession gives you half a day off every week to do planning etc?

PPA is not time off. It's simply non contact, but still directed time and part of the contests. There are various things teachers need to do during school hours, outside of the 12 weeks holidays that pupils get. Not all planning and Oreo can be done then or before/after school, such as same day assessment or contacting a parent or another relevant agency such as CAMHS, feeder school/nursery, etc.

Any yes - other jobs do get non contact time as part of their job. Few professional jobs involved 100% client/student/patient contact all day every day. Most incorporate time to write up notes, plan and prep for a session/activity, contacting other services, following up calls and emails that need to be done in core hours, etc.

For example, dh is a solicitor. He sees a lot of clients but he also has time built in to plan, prep and review/monitor. My friend is a Gp - she is given time when she is not seeing patients to plan, prep, review, monitor, contact patients by phone, contact other agencies, etc.

My daughter is a secondary school teacher and she’s lucky if she ever gets PPA time.

If in England and in a state school, then your DD's school is NOT a good school, if your dd is losing her protected PPA time (10% of their full time role.) They are not following the rules laid out for all state schools] teachers. This is a concern and should be flagged up.

I can assure you, at the primary school were I was an HLTA, there would be no staff in the building after 4:15. They considered having to stay for a meeting until 5PM a late night! However, it’s possible the teachers at my school were an exception to the norm.

And did they go home and do nothing? Ever? That would be very unusual.

These days, post covid, I leave school fairly soon as do many of our staff. However, we then go home and work from home into the evening, at weekends and in the holidays.

But yes, teaching (be it as a teacher, hlta or TA) is a doddle - all that spare time, random half days off for no reason, 9-3 jib, 12 weeks holiday. I wonder why there is any shortage as it's so easy? 🤷‍♀️

Oh, and our TAs and HLTAs are fairly highly qualified. Most have a degree, or at least A levels or equivalent. Some who don't have years and years of experience. Some are fully qualified teachers, with varying lengths of actual teaching experience themselves too. This is not unusual ime.

It's not ideal but there just aren't the teachers available any more.

I'm a school governor and we literally can't recruit. Coming close to have classes covered entirely by TAs by September.

Using an HLTA to cover a teacher's PPA for half a day a week is common.

Using an HLTA to teach the class 2 days a week permanently is effectively a jobshare but with 2 days a week taught by an unqualified teacher. 40% of your child's time at school.

HLTAs are not qualified teachers, regardless of how many lessons they've watched and I would certainly be questioning the school as to why they didn't have a job out for a 0.4 teacher to teach the other two days as would be entirely reasonable to expect this.