Should I change DDs school or hope things get better

[Notquitesure21]

I’ve posted before under a different username. My DD started Year 7 in September with one girl from her primary school in her form.

This girl has made a lot of new friends and although not deliberately excluding DD, DD feels she is not part of this new group and is now in the awful situation of spending breaks and lunches on her own.

Yesterday she got home and was very upset as she spent the day alone and more upsetting, sat in the toilets for the whole of lunch.

Over the past three months I have emailed pastoral support, spoken to the pastoral support lady and even had a meeting in school. At the meeting the school promised lots of things - arranging a meeting with other year 7 girls in a similar position (apparently there are lots also struggling although none in my DDs form). They suggested finding DD a mentor or buddy and the Learning leader said she would take DD to some lunchtime clubs.

None of this has happened. It’s like the school genuinely do not care. Despite me explaining how this is affecting my DDs mental health, how she cries at night and on the walk to school, how there is nowhere for DD to go ( the school has no library) and they’re not allowed to sit in their form room during breaks hence DD sitting in the toilets.

in desperation I have emailed the pastoral team this morning saying I need some support put in place. Another issue is that DDs form teacher appears minutes before the end of form time so DD has about 20 minutes when everyone else in her form seems to be chatting with friends whilst DD has no one to talk to.

DD had friends in primary school but it just seems with the transition to a large all girls school full of confident girls (grammmar school) she just can’t cope as she is so shy.

Im now wondering if I should try and send her to the local mixed comprehensive. I just don’t think her current school seem to care enough to help DD. I have friends who have kids at the local comp and they say the pastoral care is really good. Just not sure what to do for the best.

Sorry to hear this has been your experienced OP.

Have you followed up with the school regarding introductions and clubs? I suspect the onus to act has fallen on a teacher with a full schedule of classes etc to deliver rather than a dedicated wellbeing coordinator - they may simply have forgotten.

I'm assuming DD sat the 11+ to get into this school and am thinking it'll be a waste of her efforts to now leave - especially when there's no guarantee of friendship elsewhere. Other children may have already formed strong bonds and overlook a new girl.

Last but but not least, it could be worth encouraging DD to take some initiative - pretty much every environment she encounters in future will mean engaging with, and learning to build relationships with, new people. If she stays out of the toilets during break, she may notice other pupils that are alone or a group aside from that of her primary friend that is open to a new person.

Good luck OP and💐💐 for you both

Yes she passed the 11+ with flying colours despite having no tutoring. She refused to even look at the practice exam books I bought so we were all shocked when she did so well. Academically, she’s doing really well but I’d rather she had some friends.

Thats what I’m worried about if she changes school - everyone will already be in firm friendship groups.

I did ask DD if she sees any other girls alone at lunch and to go and join them but she’s adamant she only ever sees people in groups.

I understand the school is busy and staff are overloaded but I genuinely do not understand how despite me being clear how very bad things are for dd no one has shown the slightest interest or followed up with her.

No one else experienced this??

My sister had this at primary school OP and I replied on a similar thread last night.
my sister was in Y5 and my parents did move her. She was much happier immediately and now, at almost 30, is still best friends with 2 of the girls she met at the new school aged 10.

5 years is a long time to be unhappy and will no doubt do untold damage to her mental health. Does she know any of the girls at the local comp? Could you try and clubs locally that they might attend or meet up with friends children go there prior to her starting?
I wouldn’t see the 11+ as a wasted effort either. Her new school will be able to set her accordingly and it will of given her a confidence boost; something she probably needs at the moment!

louise thank you. She does know quite a few of the other girls in the mixed comp but other people have said changing schools will be even more stressful. Not sure what to do for the best! I have 2 teenage boys and never had any of these issues, they spend their lunchtimes playing football

I think you have to weigh out what would be worse. A week, maybe, of disruption while she finds her feet in the new school. Or potentially 5 lonely, unhappy years.
she isn’t guaranteed to make friends at the new school either but if she knows others there already then that’s a big start.

Move her, you can’t leave her in a school that doesn’t care. I left my kids a a school for far too long( different issues, but a grammar which also didn’t care). They flourished immediately

I can’t give you any advice really, but I am having very similar issues with my year 7 daughter and I’m finding it very difficult too. In fact I was looking through old threads on here a week or so ago trying to find advice. She is also at a girls school, and she says that there is nobody in her class that talks to her, she sits alone a lot, last to be paired up in class etc. I am hoping that when they are taught in sets in year 8 that she finds some people that she clicks with, but if not I am considering moving her to our more local mainstream secondary too. She had a great half term as I have pushed her to contact some old primary friends that went to different schools, it was lovely to see her happy and out of her room again. Unfortunately after one day back she is already saying that she feels sick and is asking for the day off. Her pastoral leader has been slightly more helpful but my daughter isn’t particularly open to her suggestions and that doesn’t help. Others that I have spoken to say that year 8 is often better, but if it isn’t I think I will move her to somewhere that she will at least have friends for lunchtime and breaks. I hope it gets better for your little girl soon.

I think before moving her it would be better to get to the bottom of why shes not making friends with anyone and is sitting alone.
Are there lunchtime clubs she could do? An older girl maybe mentoring her a bit?

ladypeg so sorry you and your dd are going through this too. It’s incredibly upsetting. My dd was in tears all last night saying she dreads group activities in class as no one wants her in their group. She said she approached a few girls at break time but they laughed in her face & asked her why she has no friends. Like your DD mine also had lots of friends at primary.

From my own experience having 2 boys & talking to friends with sons, it does seem to be girls that suffer more with friendship issues. I don’t think an all girls school helps either.

I too have heard year 8 is a game changer in that they stream them so more chance to meet different girls from other forms.

To answer branleuse I think my dd is having these issues because she is in a form full of very confident girls. Many travel on the train together from their non grammar school areas to attend the school so already have a big cliche. My dd is shy and sensitive and while not the most popular in primary she had plenty of friends.

ladypeg what are the initials of the school your dd goes too? Wouldn’t it be great if it was the same as my DDs, they could sit at lunch together 😀

Does it begin with K?

I think you need to pester the school more. Make a pain of yourself. Ask what clubs are on this week and who is taking her. Ask when the peer mentoring is this week and where she needs to go. Ask for the form tutor to contact you at the end of the week with her observations of how this week has gone for dd. I'm a secondary teacher.

seven great advice Thankyou. I have asked about clubs but there doesn’t seem to be many and although I have repeated several times that dd needs someone to take her to the club for the first time they just say on repeat “ your dd needs to help herself and go to the club”.

The pastoral support emailed my DDs teachers who all replied that she is engaged in class & often helps her peers with the work. Her form tutor says my dd appears OK but this is in contrast to how my dd feels at school (unless I’m being gaslit) by my own dd which I doubt as she cries all the time & begs not to go in.

No it doesn’t begin with K, it’s M

Oh no it’s a different school, hers is neither a K or an M! I have an older son too and he had the same core group of friends through from nursery to the 6th form, with a few new ones along the way so it’s all new to me too and really difficult to manage. I have had to detach when she says she’s sick and I have told her pastoral leader that I know that she needs to be in school for them to help her. She doesn’t want to go to clubs alone either in case she’s just alone again there. I have given it a cut off date of Christmas and if the situation has not improved I am going to move her. I can’t bare the thought of her being so sad in a place she has to go for over 6 hours every day. I don’t think anyone is particularly unkind, she just doesn’t like to put herself out there. The girls that your daughter is dealing with do sound a bit mean 😢

There are no guarantees that the grass will be greener. Demand a meeting with the school and don't take no for an answer. Try focusing on outside-school clubs/hobbies - even if she doesn't have a massive group in school she can still have a nice circle out of it.
Hope it works out for her, I know how dreadful it feels when your child is unhappy. Sending strength.

I’m so sorry to hear this OP :(

Changing school would be a roll of the dice: might help might not. Do you have access to a genuine all ability comprehensive, or if she moves would she always be the brightest child in every class? I’ve been that girl and it was very lonely in a different way. If you have access to a school with great academics I’d probably move her now, but if not it’s worth really trying hard with the grammar. It’s extremely impressive that she passed the 11+ with zero tutoring and practice (I didn’t think that possible!) and it would be a shame if her later academic options are limited by this social problem.

Anyway before moving schools I would email the head, cc the form teacher, saying your daughter’s mental health is worsening because of her social isolation at school, that on X dates the school said it would do Y but this has not happened, and you are now dealing with a case of full school refusal, anxiety, and possibly also depression, which the school cannot continue to ignore and which if not addressed you will need to escalate. Ask for a meeting with the head and form teacher. Be a pain. If anyone tells you that DD needs to take an action (eg leave toilets and try to chat to strangers, or find a club on her own) say “No, DD is anxious and depressed, she needs help not blame and pressure, you would not tell a depressed person to improve their mental health by pulling themselves together and chatting to strangers, why tell an eleven year old girl that?”

Good luck! If it just isn’t working, do move.

So sorry to read what your DD is going through. It almost mirrors the experience of my DS, who like your DD started in Year 7 at the local Grammar, also with no coaching, very able, but also extremely shy (has a Asd dx, I had been assured that lots of boys at the school did and pastoral care would be good). Once he was there, however, it soon became clear that pastoral care really wasn't that good, either due to lack of resource and possibly affected by staff shortages due to Covid (this was two years ago). He used to wander the corridors, not eating lunch, too shy to go into the huge lunch hall (also v noisy). It was heartbreaking, he was nearly broken by it. We ended up taking him out to HE for a short period, and then he started the local comprehensive in Year 9 (which was also the first year, as we have two different systems for schools around here). To cut a long story short, despite my concerns (similar to yours) it was the best decision we could have made; he's now settled and happy, has made friends, has the beginnings of a proper social life (I honestly couldn't have imagined that a year ago). It was a huge relief and I'm sure he'll end up doing just as well, if not better, academically, as he's happy.

I remember your other post.

Move her - things can hardly be any worse in the new school.
Your dd is really really struggling and you have done all you can where she is now and you have got nowhere.
If she is so deeply unhappy she not do well academically and she will lose all of her confidence.

Move her and try and immediately encourage play dates and meet ups over the summer with the people she knows already from the school, so she has friends to talk to from day one.

I am sorry she is still so upset, this is not going to get better. Bright children will do well anywhere.

This will 100% be my dd10 when she starts secondary school. She has struggled with friendships since primary when she was diagnosed with autism and gone down hill since then ! I'm looking at a secondary school that allegedly has a great senco lead, I vaguely know the pastoral manager and she seems very caring so we will see. If things don't work out I'll have no hesitation in moving her. Good luck OP.

I would move her because I’ve no time for schools that promise support but don’t deliver. I moved my eldest in both Primary School (twice) and Secondary School. He’s in a specialist school now as he has ASD so not quite the same situation.

However, my DS2 who is in Y7 sounds similar to your DD. We moved house to find the right school for him as he has an anxiety disorder. At first he was spending lunches and breaks alone but after I spoke to school they have put in place so much support and it’s really helped him massively. They are proactive, for example, before Easter they contacted me to tell me it had been noted that he wasn’t eating food at lunchtime. They found out this was due to anxiety and now he starts lunch 10 minutes earlier. I think good pastoral support is most important factor in choosing a school. You can’t learn properly when you are struggling socially and emotionally.

My DD is in y7 and is going through a similar experience. Her school does have a library though which is her refuge. She goes there most lunchtimes. We are moving house during the summer which will mean a new school. She's looking forward to a fresh start so hopefully she will find her people at her new school. It's so hard as a parent though.

One of my sons had no friends at secondary school and was very unhappy. I moved him at 14 and he made friends that I believe he will have for life. He is living with some of them now as an adult. It's like an episode of Men Behaving Badly in their flat but grubbier and a bit smelly absolutely disgusting 🤢 They are all so happy. It's wonderful.

See if the other school will do a visit to get a feel for it....

I have 2 older boys and a younger girl , my boys went to a different primary and had no friends starting at their secondary , they soon made friends .
I purposely sent my daughter to a local primary knowing [hoping !] she would have friends going to the same secondary , this worked well for her luckily ,i thought it may not be as easy for girls starting a school with no friends from primary.
She is in year 9 and lately has had a few new kids start in her year ,it sounds like they have all been treated kindly by her peers and blend in with the friendship groups.
I think i would be thinking about moving schools , it sounds like they aren't doing much to help your daughter .
Would she be able to try alternative for a few days ?
what is there to lose , she must be feeling so miserable , passing 11+ means nothing at the moment her wellbeing matters so much more .
I hope things work out for her x