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"Gold dust" school jobs

457 replies

Smartsub · 18/05/2022 19:14

I am currently trying to recruit for support staff in school. I need kitchen, staff, admin and TAs. All term time only and all school hours. The jobs I've previously seen referred to on here as "gold dust".

We are getting hardly any applications and those we do get a poor. Admittedly the money is poor, but that's always been the case. Until a couple of years ago the difficult part was sifting through the 100s of applications we'd get for such jobs, now we rarely get more than a handful.

What's changed?

OP posts:
mellicauli · 18/05/2022 23:45

My friend started as a TA and was clocking up 20,000 steps a day. And no stuffing your face with biscuits in front of a computer all day.

Market it as a weight loss program?

CurlyhairedAssassin · 18/05/2022 23:57

Smartsub · 18/05/2022 22:43

Yes. £23k pa works out at about £12800 for 25 hours pw, term time only.

25 hours?? Admin officers do way more hours than that unless it's specifically a part time role (as well as TTO). Even our TAs do more than that.

Misunderestimated · 19/05/2022 00:01

Lots of organisations struggle to recruit. I generally find some common characteristics: -

  • Being used to having their pick of staff, they have earned a reputation for not bothering to acknowledge most job applications.
  • There is no difference in pay between committed, capable members of staff who are good at their jobs and others of the same grade who aren't.
  • Continued increases in workload with little or no appreciation.
  • A complete refusal to recognise competition from other employers even when accommodations might cost little or nothing at all.
These symptoms are not exclusive to schools, but the only effective response I've seen is to attract staff from employers that treat their workers even worse. In many parts of the country, schools don't have that luxury.

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about this subject:

CurlyhairedAssassin · 19/05/2022 00:03

NeverDropYourMooncup · 18/05/2022 22:49

Oh yes, that lack of responsibility.

The only person who knows how to enter, book and run exams, train invigilators, handle a JCQ inspection potentially every day, design and maintain strict security procedures. No responsibility.

The only person who knows how to interpret the Admissions code, policies, operate multiple bespoke systems, deal with queries, ensure documents are in place for appeals, tell the head that their refusal to admit a child is illegal and get shouted at for it, follow the safeguarding rules of the (generally inept) LA, shouting and crying applicants, and get people to actually give them what they need to handle the applications. No responsibility.

The person who looks at a crying child and identifies symptoms consistent with a fracture. Spots the signs that this child isn't just having a bit of a cough, they're going into anaphylaxis, administer the EpiPen, help them use an inhaler if the parent has bothered sending one in, hold a kid's head still covered in blood for hours until the ambulance gets there whilst senior staff run around demanding that you move them because it'll upset the others to have them bleeding there and ordering someone else to get a bucket and mop and clean up that blood. No responsibility.

The person who works out that there's something more than a tummyache on the 9th visit and then goes on to find out there's a huge safeguarding disclosure.

To treat self harm cuts or have a vulnerable kid telling them if they can't stay there, they'll kill themself because there's nowhere else for them to go. No responsibility.

To turn SLT big ideas into practicalities when SLT don't have a scooby what is involved and will shout at them if there's one tiny thing not how they envisaged it because it was impossible to do it that way or because they dared to want to sit down rather than stand up for five hours on parents' evening. No responsibility.

To know that whatever goes wrong, whether it's a pure fluke, SLT idiocy, not having the correct equipment or sudden thunderstorm, SLT will move heaven and earth to blame them for it. No responsibility.

To be the one trapped with the angry parent who wants to have it out with a senior staff member whilst SLT stay in their offices. No responsibility.

To know that if they work their arses off and do everything right, somebody in SLT will use their hard work to get themselves a payrise. But the person working so bloody hard won't get one 'because there's no money'.

No responsibility. No credit. But all the blame in the world.

This could be my previous secondary school! Your post made me sad as it brought back the realities of working there and I've tried to block it out since I left. Thankfully my new school (primary) is nothing like that because it's a small school and we work well as a team,and our SLT are very supportive and appreciative.

yesthatisdrizzle · 19/05/2022 00:06

When my dd was in about Y3, I was a parent helper at her school (they asked in a newsletter for volunteers, I offered). One morning a week, and I thought I'd enjoy it. Would have been fine apart from three things. One - the class teacher sitting me in a corridor and sending a bunch of the very worst readers out to me. The ones who really actually needed expert teaching, not a parent. Two - I wasn't even allowed so much as a glass of water all morning. Three - all the staff looked on me with utter contempt and treated me as though they had just scraped me off the bottom of their shoe.

I think I lasted about three weeks. God help support staff, that's all I can say.

spongedog · 19/05/2022 00:07

I have been in the school sector for 5 years. I am a qualified chartered professional with decades of experience. I am very poorly paid. But do you know why I am leaving? The utter contempt that I and other support staff are held in by SLT and teaching staff. Just disgusted. My granny was a head, both my parents were teachers so I understand some of the pressures of the job.

I have huge responsibility and yes I am told no accountability. But if I get some aspects of my job wrong then I could screw up the school's budget quite seriously. I am not even finance. I have no school based training as there is no CPD budget for support staff.

I went into the sector hoping to gain experience before moving on to becoming a bursar. No thanks.

JesusMaryAndJosephAndTheWeeDon · 19/05/2022 00:15

I know of at least three school support staff who have left or are leaving school jobs for the care industry.

Two catering staff, one a cook in charge the other a head chef, both get paid better for more flexibility and less responsibility in kitchens in care homes. One TA who can get better hours and money providing one to one home care.

Catering especially is really high demand at the moment, and there is good money available.

goingback · 19/05/2022 00:19

was looking for school hours job, was told the hours but it was expected the hours were fluid and to be flexible but only the set hours would be paid so potentailly dropping below minimum wage

Sswhinesthebest · 19/05/2022 00:20

No responsibility? Ha, you are having a laugh? So if a child gets hurt or doesn’t achieve as it’s felt they should, there are no repercussions? Ok the SLT/teacher has ultimate responsibility, but it’s the TA who bears the brunt of this. At least in my school.

Didicat · 19/05/2022 00:22

I work as a technician at a school, luckily I have a fab team to support.

however I have been treated like dirt on shoe, shouted at, told I’m not being efficient enough. The whole technician sector is struggling to attract new people in. Not enough money for people to live on without a partner significantly out earning them.

also should I make a mistake as a chemistry technician life changing injuries/death could occur due to the nature of hazardous chemicals. I’m pretty sure the health and safety executive would want to see me in court!

orginally I planned to stay in schools for the rest of my career, currently waiting for the youngest to go to secondary and then I’m going elsewhere, for more money and less stress funnily enough like the rest of staff jumping off the band wagon.

starray · 19/05/2022 00:25

The responsibilities for those jobs just aren't worth the pittance of a salary. That's why.

Littepinkyogapants · 19/05/2022 00:30

Smartsub · 18/05/2022 19:22

I don't think there's a lot of responsibility, the responsibility sits elsewhere.

I'd love to pay more but 1. the LA sets the payscales, 2. School budgets, to pay more, we have to cut something else.

I’m a teacher and the amount of work , with often hugely demanding children for a TA is massive . TAs are expected to teach the class as cover a lot . Have observations and massive work load for little money . I’d rather work at sainsburys and be paid more !!!

BowerOfBramble · 19/05/2022 00:41

Those pay scales and judgements about what constitutes “responsibility” are clearly based on a massive devaluation of so-called “soft skills” necessary for these vital jobs. Basically you and I both know that’s down to sexism and an assumption that the employees (women) will “naturally” be able to do these jobs that involve cooking and admin and childcare easily because we have lady brains.

Legal or managerial responsibilities are in many ways a lot easier than the kind of life or death responsibility found in these jobs. I’d rather manage 10 people any day than have to supervise children with allergies having lunch, stop bullies from bullying, and deal with irate parents - all while being paid crap and looked on as basically a servant by many teachers it seems.

Clearly better options being available realise people aren’t having to go for these jobs. I think you’d do well if you targeted them to perhaps newly retired people who realise they’re a bit bored and could do with top up cash.

But really I hope what you’re doing on this thread is gathering ammunition for your challenge to your bosses to demand better pay and conditions for your future employees.

lightisnotwhite · 19/05/2022 04:29

Legal or managerial responsibilities are in many ways a lot easier than the kind of life or death responsibility found in these jobs. I’d rather manage 10 people any day than have to supervise children with allergies having lunch, stop bullies from bullying, and deal with irate parents - all while being paid crap and looked on as basically a servant by many teachers it seems

This.

Purplespup16 · 19/05/2022 05:46

Autumnterm · 18/05/2022 22:12

@Purplespup16 Did you know if I witnessed a Safeguarding concern of a child in my school out of school hours/holidays I have a responsibility to report it to the LA?!

I should jolly well hope so. We all have a responsibility to report safeguarding concerns about a child, particularly if you know who the child is. Who wouldn’t?

You’re right, that was badly worded. I was in rant mode. I meant that it is written in my LA’s safeguarding policy and therefore is a contractual responsibility and has accountability.

Penguinsaregreat · 19/05/2022 06:15

I used to be a T.A.
I studied child psychology and have various level 3 qualifications in Children's Care Learning and Development.
I left a very well paid job simply due to the fact that I did not have affordable, reliable chlidcare.
The only reason I worked as a T.A was due to having children. No other job would guarantee 13 weeks off work to cover school holidays.
At the time there wasn't any financial help towards child care costs and my dh worked for a very chauvinist company who frowned upon fathers ever taking time off for family related issues.
Anyway, I can categorically say that the pay is awful, it does not equate to the skill set/level of responsibility. I have planned lessons, taken the whole class, set and marked homework, taken the lead in reporting child abuse, organised and ran find raising events, gone on overnight residential and been the primary female lead etc etc etc. All for £10,500 per year.
I have no doubt that if a parent can get a better paid job with far less responsibility they will.
The management would regularly ask where I had gone on my UNPAID lunch break as they had been liking for me to administer first aid!
Do you want to pay me for that hour so I will be on call? Oh no.
I now work in a completely different industry. It is busy and I never get to sit on my backside doing my on line shopping trust me. However I am much better paid and I do my hours then leave.
When certain staff members would moan about T.A.s leaving work on time, I would remind them that I could get more money emptying bins or cleaning.

Penguinsaregreat · 19/05/2022 06:22

Also the T.A. was always told to work with the very low ability, badly behaved children, always.

Widgets · 19/05/2022 06:40

I have applied for several school admin jobs, having above and beyond the experience and relevant skills, always invited to interviews and feedback is very positive but I always get “ it was so close but sorry someone who has worked in a school before has been successful on this occasion “. It’s always about SIMS which drives me mad as if I can’t get experience working in a school how am I going to get my hands on SIMS experience?! I do have database and iT skills which I talk about in interview and explain my transferable skills and willingness to be trained up using the school system. Due to confidentiality I can’t volunteer in a school office so that’s not an option to gain experience and I’ve looked at SIMS courses online but they are only available for existing school staff!!
I am genuinely interested in useful ideas of how to resolve this? I would love an admin job in a local primary school

ivfbabymomma1 · 19/05/2022 06:41

I work in the school office, I love it and the term time work is invaluable as I have a toddler. However the pay should definitely be higher for what we have to do! Luckily DH is a good earner or I couldn't do it!

MargosKaftan · 19/05/2022 06:42

Practical things you could do to help improve recruitment -

Let people apply with a cv and brief covering note. Every school I've applied for an admin role in has made me fill out a form that takes at least an hour, whereas every non-public sector employer offering similar jobs have accepted just a cv. Its meant I've been more likely to apply for non-public sector roles in the past.

Offer places at your school for children of staff who have worked at the school for 6 months at time of applying and are still in place when the child starts. State schools can vary their admissions policy to give staff children a priority.

Make sure you have a reputation for looking after support staff. Eg. 1Offer training into other roles.

Basically, these jobs aren't "gold dust" anymore, so you need to stop acting like you are doing them a massive favour by even considering them for a role.

MsTSwift · 19/05/2022 06:53

I’m a solicitor and feel sick at the consequences if I stuff up - but financial. Was far more stressed as a volunteer on a school trip. Remember a female comedian doing a skit on how stressed she was on helping on a school trip (Rebecca front?) “1 2 3 4 shit I’m going to get sued” - could relate!

boobearandme · 19/05/2022 07:11

I work in a school office and I’m trying my hardest after 9 years to get out.
The workload, stress and responsibility is immense. There is only me in the front office with 400 children on roll. I’m the receptionist, the administrator, payroll clerk, HR person, first aider. risk assessor, trip organiser. I have to take shit from the rudest of parents daily. The phone rings non stop. The list goes on and on.
Support staff leave and we just cannot recruit. I work 35 hours a week and I earnt £14,400 last year. I’m in my 40s and feel like a total failure in my working life.
The job was fine for when I had young children but I don’t anymore. The holidays might have be an incentive but when you are earning so little you are stuck at home for weeks at time with no money to do anything.

Forgothowmuchlhatehomeschoolin · 19/05/2022 07:15

Widgets · 19/05/2022 06:40

I have applied for several school admin jobs, having above and beyond the experience and relevant skills, always invited to interviews and feedback is very positive but I always get “ it was so close but sorry someone who has worked in a school before has been successful on this occasion “. It’s always about SIMS which drives me mad as if I can’t get experience working in a school how am I going to get my hands on SIMS experience?! I do have database and iT skills which I talk about in interview and explain my transferable skills and willingness to be trained up using the school system. Due to confidentiality I can’t volunteer in a school office so that’s not an option to gain experience and I’ve looked at SIMS courses online but they are only available for existing school staff!!
I am genuinely interested in useful ideas of how to resolve this? I would love an admin job in a local primary school

Yep...this is a pita.
So l asked my daughter's headteacher if l could go into their office and just see my own child's file which they let me do.
Then still didn't get the next job because someone else who already worked at this school applied wanting more hours.
So frustrating.

mamaism · 19/05/2022 07:31

@Widgets The SIMS thing is a pain. Anyone with any amount of IT skills can learn the basics in an hour. There's far more to it, but you can pick that up as you go along. I was lucky and got my first school job without any experience, though I think volunteering there first (PTA stuff) massively helped convince them that I knew what I was doing. If you can't do that, then I guess you just keep bigging up your other IT skills and ability to learn new systems.

noblegiraffe · 19/05/2022 07:32

Let people apply with a cv and brief covering note. Every school I've applied for an admin role in has made me fill out a form that takes at least an hour, whereas every non-public sector employer offering similar jobs have accepted just a cv.

This is for safeguarding reasons, all schools do it. It's easier to hide things or miss them out on a CV where it's obvious when they're blank on a form.