What does job centre/society actually expect this woman to do?

[steppemum]

I support a lady (friendship through a charity) I'll change some details to make it less identifiable.

She has a son aged 5 and in school and so the job centre are giving her a lot of hassle to get into work. But I just cannot see how she is supposed to do this:

• she is a single mum. Her partner is not son's dad and doesn't live with her.


• she lives on a large council estate out of town. Very little work on the estate. 20 minute bus ride into town. Some work in town, mostly in shops (which I doubt she would get, she's not likely to get a customer facing job) most work is then a further 20 minutes on the bus from the bus station in town.


• there is no breakfast club or after school club, or holiday clubs at the school


• there are no childminders on the estate. The closest ones are about 1 mile away, and don't do school drop offs or pick ups


• she does have local family, but they are not willing to do any childcare, either before/after school, or in the holidays.


• she is only likely to get a minimum wage job as she has no qualifications.

So, she could only work day time, from about 9:30 - 2:00 in order to do school run, no weekends and she has no-one to look after her son in the holidays.

Job centre has told her she is being too fussy and she must be more flexible with timings.

Am I missing something here? I just don't see HOW she can get a job! She would like to work actually, but is also pretty scared about ending up with less money.

I have a huge amount of sympathy here for 2 reasons : having worked for both the job centre and the Benefits Agency (as it was years ago) I've seen first hand that some people just aren't that employable for no fault of their own. Like the OP says this person is 'not that bright' so not just a lack of education but a lack of capability. Combine this with the lack of social skills which can't really be taught, and you're talking about someone who's quite vulnerable . Add in the issues with childcare, not driving and no family support and you're left with very scant options.
My second reason is that I have recently found myself in a similar position but fortunately for me, it doesn't have dire financial consequences. My 5 year old DD didn't get into the same school that my older children had attended and the one she goes to has a very different demographic. Most of the families at this school are either single mums on benefits or have at least one none working parent so the demand for wraparound care is low. There is an afterschoool club but it has very low attendance but there is no provision in the holidays which causes me a big problem as we have no family support anymore (in laws are too old to look after her for more then an hour or so).
I took voluntary redundancy at the end of last year and decided to use part of my severance pay to support a year off but once I'm ready to look for another job I'm going to face some of the same issues as this person despite being well qualified and having 30 years of experience. I don't think I'll struggle to get a job but I'm not sure what I'm going to do with my daughter for the 14 weeks of the year that schools are on holiday when most jobs offer 5 or 6 weeks holidays maximum.

Sorry if this has already been asked and answered, but what was it she did before she had children/had to claim benefits?

Of course she can get a job. Lots of people have a much longer commute than 40 minutes. I agree lots of college courses are free for folk on benefits.

Where does she live that there is NO childcare at all? Sounds pretty unusual to me. She needs to have a better look for childcare or a job that will work round school hours. It’s right that the job Centre expect an able bodied person to work at least part time.

im a single mum with no family support. I managed to work from when they were 10 months. It’s possible.

The Dad could shell out for some childcare, surely? Sorry if this has already been covered, but if he does not, why not?

I meant to add to my last post that the best option for this lady at he moment is probably to keep applying for jobs she has no chance of getting as my understanding is that you have to be seen to be looking for work but I doubt you could be sanctioned if you keep applying and being rejected.

I think some people in society are genuinely unemployable

Because he's dead.

To all the PP saying the commute is small or that she should be able to do shift work. What do you suggest she does with her 5year old? There are no suitable options that will work with his school.

It sounds like this lady has a lot of support needs herself and may well not be a suitable candidate for a lot of jobs at the moment. It might be more feasible for her to have a reassessment of her needs and her benefits (eg has she had an assessment of her cognitive functioning and her occupational skills?), and to use that as a basis for finding her some supported voluntary work or skills development through dedicated support hours. In time, she could then develop skills which might enable her to enter into paid employment.

Apologies if I've got this wrong, but it sounds like there may well be a mismatch between what the job centre thinks she can do and her actual level of functioning.

I completely understand. I know lots of people like the lady you support OP and I have specific learning difficulties myself so I know how hard it is. It sounds to me that she is in that in between category where she is too able to not be expected to look for work but not able enough to actually get a job.

How old is she? I know there are a lot of apprentice schemes for young adults with learning difficulties near me but you have to be under 25 I think and probably have a formal diagnosis as well. I'm guessing she is older than that if she has a 5 year old and older children who don't live with her.

The only thing I can think of is could she keep going with the job hunting to keep the job centre off her back but also volunteer somewhere like a charity shop or a toddler group/support group. It would help with her self esteem to be doing something and it could help her develop the skills she needs to do a paid job one day.

She’s going to have to do a term time inly school hours minimum wage job basically ☹️ Or something like childminding where her child can come too.

What other women in this situation do:

• School admin / teaching assistant / dinner lady / invigilator


• cleaning


• if very lucky, local council work


• Childcare

We really need to stop assuming that childcare is a career you can go into as an act of desperation or because forced by poverty.

Childcare is a huge responsibility and should be a vocation. It needs a blend of skills, qualifications and motivations that not everyone has.

OP had said right off that the woman in question is “unlikely to get customer facing jobs”, which might be relevant.

The Dad could shell out for some childcare, surely? Sorry if this has already been covered, but if he does not, why not?

He's dead.
This is why it is irritating when the OP does not include the crucial information in the original post. The woman has no partner because he is dead and she has undiagnosed learning difficulties which make everyday life very difficult.
Neither of these points were included in the OP so people naturally focussed on it being simply a logistical problem. then get complained at for being "typical mn" by the OP

OP - you mention lack of focus. Has she been assessed for adhd and the likes? It really does sound like her situation is far more complex than most and there is no straightforward approach when this is the case.

She needs professional support to strip back to basics, starting with looking at whether she has a learning or developmental disability that is the root of many of her current problems. It’s not a quick process but it’s also one that with a lot of time, effort and external input can be overcome so she can participate in society. Sadly jobcentres have no desire to address the reasons or even solve the problems, they just move bodies about to make it look like the system works.

Most of MN will never understand the complexities involved in people like
this. It’s really not a pull your socks up
situation, it’s total change from the basics up. It’s fixing health and developmental inequalities and then learning basic reading and writing from scratch once it’s established why this has been a problem. It requires multi-agency support. It’s a long process.

it’s so easy for people in their ivory 4 bed detached houses to suggest she gets on with it but for a very few, it will never be that simple. Society needs to understand that for some people their contribution to society will not be financial or economic but that doesn’t mean she has nothing to contribute. Judging by responses here tho that’s the message she’ll receive from society and that will
cause her to give up.

OP if she’s as unable to organise herself as you say, do you honestly think she has the capacity to turn up at work on time each day, and actually retain any job that she gets? It sounds to me from your descriptions of her that her holding down paid employment is currently a wildly unrealistic idea. Perhaps the focus should be on getting her diagnoses of any medical
issues, improving her literacy and social skills, rather than trying to find a unicorn job which will suit someone who sounds, bluntly, totally unequipped for a workplace.

Really agree with all of this.

I think a lot of people simply don't ever come into contact with people like this, and so they just don't appreciate how heavily the odds can be stacked against some people.

Is she eligible for PIP or any other benefits? You say she can't read or write so is there a learning disability there that would enable her to claim benefits and allow her to be registered as unable to work?

He’s dead.

I think some people in society are genuinely unemployable

Well some people genuinely are, but this lady could probably work if her family had a business she could slot into (shop, restaurant, nursery, hotel) and she would do a perfectly good job and gain money and confidence. Unfortunately these days there are less such family businesses, and large employers can call the shots, and she is not equipped to compete successfully in this job market.

The people with difficulties like this, social, mental health and educational, fall through the cracks in our society, there is no provision for them, the lucky ones have family who can help or advocate for them, use influence to find a supportive employer etc. The rest are abandoned, misunderstood and told they have low aspirations. The job centres should be helping these people but staff are either not willing or not trained to do this, or unable to help due to time/staffing constraints.

The most diplomatic way I can think to say this is - people who did not have the skills to work in customer facing roles often worked in factories and warehouses. Are there any industrial areas nearby?

I agree though that for many, its an impossible scenario without childcare, which often costs as much as the job itself.

DD walked two miles with her 2 year old ASD child to drop him at nursery before walking another mile and half to work in a minimum wage retail job from 10-4 five days a week. She then walked the journey back ( very occasionally catching a bus from nursery home if she had recently been paid) The job centre assured her she didn't need to go to work until, I think, he was 5.
Once GS was at school she worked 9-2 as has no qualifications due to her severe ill health throughout childhood necessitating numerous operations and hospital stays.
There's always options if you're prepared to actually work

OP, is there a McDonald's in the town? I strongly recommend approaching them to discuss if so. I worked there for several years alongside my studies and we employed a few people with learning disabilities, some of whom were actively supported by charities, some not. Very short shifts are possible eg we had one man who cleaned tables 12-2 every weekday and was well-supported by colleagues and management. School hours were also common. The business manager would have to be on board but ours certainly was, although this was 15 years ago. One issue would be that the application system is centralised and online only so she would certainly need support with that.

It sounds like a very difficult situation and that possibly there is too much pressure on her. She needs support and to be able to look at her options without pressure or threat of sanctions if work isn’t found.

Sometimes some people genuinely can’t work and in this case with her difficulties I feel the focus should be on making sure she is parenting her child to the correct level has lots of support and not forcing her into work now but maybe revisit the idea in the future