What does job centre/society actually expect this woman to do?

[steppemum]

I support a lady (friendship through a charity) I'll change some details to make it less identifiable.

She has a son aged 5 and in school and so the job centre are giving her a lot of hassle to get into work. But I just cannot see how she is supposed to do this:

• she is a single mum. Her partner is not son's dad and doesn't live with her.


• she lives on a large council estate out of town. Very little work on the estate. 20 minute bus ride into town. Some work in town, mostly in shops (which I doubt she would get, she's not likely to get a customer facing job) most work is then a further 20 minutes on the bus from the bus station in town.


• there is no breakfast club or after school club, or holiday clubs at the school


• there are no childminders on the estate. The closest ones are about 1 mile away, and don't do school drop offs or pick ups


• she does have local family, but they are not willing to do any childcare, either before/after school, or in the holidays.


• she is only likely to get a minimum wage job as she has no qualifications.

So, she could only work day time, from about 9:30 - 2:00 in order to do school run, no weekends and she has no-one to look after her son in the holidays.

Job centre has told her she is being too fussy and she must be more flexible with timings.

Am I missing something here? I just don't see HOW she can get a job! She would like to work actually, but is also pretty scared about ending up with less money.

Her 5 year old will soon be a teenager and wiil not need any childcare at all.

if she cannot get any job whatsoever (still struggling to accept this) then she needs to learn how to read and write / do volunteering during school hours and actually get some skills under her belt because as soon as her child is old enough she can get a job and there really will be no excuse.

Are people really so lacking in insight that they think things are this simple?

Yes we have a cafe run by an autism charity that employs people with autism - they do basic cafe work but supported. I think issue here is woman isn’t diagnosed so would struggle to be eligible for this type of scheme.

Because he's dead

Mind blowing isn’t it…

Fun fact. 90 percent of prisoners have learning problems.

What do we do with our vulnerable? We criminalise them.

You really have no awareness of people who are on the bottom rung of the ladder do you?
Your lack of empathy for this woman disgusts me

And what is to be done about people like you who apparently can read but remain so ill informed? Even a skip through just the OP’s posts would have been a start.

@Sugarplumfairy65 actually yes I absolutely do!!!

Why are your suggestions so daft and unsuitable then?

Interesting to read the replies to this post. When my children first started school I worked mon-fri 9:30-230 to fit around school, I also used to save all my holiday entitlement throughout the year to use during school holidays, there were a few days where i struggled but i just has to take unpaid leave from work. I now work in a school so my job fits perfectly around my children.
there is a childminder within a mile radius and if the childminder is only used in school holidays it doesn't matter about school drop off/pick up.

For all those suggesting a work from home call centre role, I worked in a contact centre environment for most of my career and a lot of the people I worked with were graduates, not barely literate. Decent GCSE results and a good standard of computer literacy would be an absolute minimum requirement and then she would need to pass a telephone interview and probably another on Teams or Zoom. Companies like the one I worked for are looking for people who are presentable, well spoken and quick thinking. In most roles you'd also need good people skills to be able to deal with complaints and resolve conflict. I really don't think the OP's friend has any chance of getting a job like that.

It shouldn’t be radical for employers to offer school hours or for the job centre to provide more assistance, to support her rather than bully her into work.

This is the real problem, most work and school hours just aren't compatible and the expectations haven't evolved along with our lives.

Not long ago it was 'normal' and sustainable to have a single income household so one parent (usually the mother) could stay at home and care for the children, but pay stagnating while living costs have risen have made that out of reach for so many while cost and availability of childcare is still unsuitable. And it's not just minimum wage that this is a problem for- my toddlers nursery costs over £1,000 a month, if I also needed extra childcare for my older dc before/after school that would be an additional £600 a month- that's more than a lot of peoples take home pay. But 25 years ago my parents managed on a single wage of ~£1,200 a month and had a mortgage, 2 cars, holidays every other year and plenty of other extras.

On top of these and everything else, the people in power are so out of touch there is no hope of reform. The benefits system fails those most in need while at the same time those same people are demonised.

There isn't an easy fix. In an ideal world, our working lives, childrens school and home lives would all fit together- but that's not going to happen anytime soon.

There is also the failure of so many other systems, the ones that let people get to adulthood unable to read, write, or take basic care of themselves and their dc then sanction them for not being able to get a job.

@Qaaka not really daft. Has the OP put an ad out on behalf of this lady offering to clean within school hours (I'd only have a cleaner in school hours if I had one)!

Has this lady called any care home companies (who are crying our for carers) to work within school hours doing care work. OP suggested that she was would he great at this job!

you have to try every angle before asking 'nope this lady defines cannot work anywhere within school hours'

@Remmy123 Please do tell us about your advanced degrees and / or work in the community to support those held back by SEN, poor upbringing, trauma etc.

FFS, is it completely beyond you to try to develop some kind of empathy or understanding?

Isn't it funny how during the pandemic and lockdown, we were constantly told that school isn't childcare....yet it certainly seems it is when it suits them...

.., I also suggested she volunteers in spare time to try and get some skills for when childcare is no longer an issue.

@MajesticallyAwkward yes I agree with all of that. I really feel for marginalised people, I cannot imagine how lonely and demoralising it must be to be confined to a life of poverty. There are lots of good people who try to make a positive difference by volunteering, supporting charities and working in social support roles but we need to vote in a government prepared to start the work towards sustainability in every sense of the word, social, environmental and financial.

It's helpful to read a thread or at least the ops posts before contributing tbh, she's already covered why she's struggling to get care gone work.

Can she not apply for PIP if she has a learning disability? She won’t even be able to represent herself and that would be obvious in the assessment hopefully. Not being able to read and write and organise oneself are huge disabilities. And for those saying ‘Just learn to read’, how long do you think this would take? This isn’t a motivated woman…she isn’t just like you but unable to read. My Tory ex is like this with the ‘Oh just do this!’ etc without having any understanding of the obstacles. And all that work just to do a crap minimum wage job isn’t exactly motivating.

You’d no doubt have to appeal (because they reject most of the claims) but she’d have a good chance especially if you said that you were supporting her in a lot of areas.

The appeals are actually easier than the initial interview because the assessors are more neutral and don’t work directly for the DWP. I think about 70 percent of appeals are successful.

Fucks sake @Remmy123 are you 13?
At least read all posts by the OP it might save people wasting time reading your shite.

So the work she can do is incompatible with the childcare barrier whilst the work that fits into school hours (WFH etc), she will struggle to do.

I run my own online business. It's not for the fainthearted and there's a huge learning curve involved. Her original idea of cleaning/care work sounds more feasible if she can sort out something for her son. I would get her to ask around the neighbourhood and see if anyone is willing to help out - there's a fair number of mothers who run informal 'pick-ups' at my school for friends and neighbours. That would get around the shift-work problem and it's worth asking/nagging the council about holiday schemes or clubs.

Option B is to pursue education. As long as she is in skills/training, the JobCentre cannot sanction her. That should give her some respite until her son is older.

I totally get where you’re coming from OP. I work in a shop on a Saturday and there is a family who come in each week whose ages probably range from mid teens to late 60s. Not one of them can read or write, they can’t even count out how much money they need to pay, they ask me to do it. They live a very shambolic life, their clothing is dirty and personal hygiene non existent. They are all pretty much unemployable. It’s really sad in this day and age that people live like that and others are so privileged that they can’t imagine the obstacles this woman faces.

Why hasn't she learnt how to read? Surely that is one thing she can do to help herself and greater her chances.

Maybe she’s been too tied up with, y’know, just surviving?

This is very sad, but not unusual, and I’m also saddened by the number of suggestions that she could, even should, just do this or that.
She needs support that is generally no longer available, however could you advocate for her to get a disability work coach? I know she’s not diagnosed with anything and I know some areas reluctance to do anything outside ‘guidance says’ but it may be possible and they should then be able to provide more bespoke and realistic advice. Secondly is there a local community centre that has anything - such as an employability club, or even basic literacy? Such places often provide more individual support around dealing with DWP and even other life skills/confidence etc. The lady really does need to take a few steps back before being expected to get, manage and maintain employment regularly- be a shame to get work she wouldn’t manage to keep - so I think taking the focus of this and building her up in other areas may be beneficial- if possible.
If she continues to feel harassed I’d try the GP for support or possibly the MP.
Having said all this, it is, or could become, a strain for you - it’s lovely to advocate and support but then a dependency will grow and it can be stressful- though if you can guide her to any support place this would help.
It is though lovely to see folk who do help others simply because they believe it the right thing to do. Take care OP.

@watcherintherye she is free between school hours.

Overall volunteering / learning to read will not only help get employment but will really help mental health.