What does job centre/society actually expect this woman to do?

[steppemum]

I support a lady (friendship through a charity) I'll change some details to make it less identifiable.

She has a son aged 5 and in school and so the job centre are giving her a lot of hassle to get into work. But I just cannot see how she is supposed to do this:

• she is a single mum. Her partner is not son's dad and doesn't live with her.


• she lives on a large council estate out of town. Very little work on the estate. 20 minute bus ride into town. Some work in town, mostly in shops (which I doubt she would get, she's not likely to get a customer facing job) most work is then a further 20 minutes on the bus from the bus station in town.


• there is no breakfast club or after school club, or holiday clubs at the school


• there are no childminders on the estate. The closest ones are about 1 mile away, and don't do school drop offs or pick ups


• she does have local family, but they are not willing to do any childcare, either before/after school, or in the holidays.


• she is only likely to get a minimum wage job as she has no qualifications.

So, she could only work day time, from about 9:30 - 2:00 in order to do school run, no weekends and she has no-one to look after her son in the holidays.

Job centre has told her she is being too fussy and she must be more flexible with timings.

Am I missing something here? I just don't see HOW she can get a job! She would like to work actually, but is also pretty scared about ending up with less money.

@steppemum

I feel for her and for you trying to help.

It's sad that she has been failed by the education system, although I do hear you regarding the low IQ. Schools get pupil premium funding from an early age but given that the disadvantaged still require the benefit of Widening Participation when applying to University, how much does that funding actually achieve if the gap hasn't been closed in 14 years of formal education.

Withuot being unkind, and luckily for them, all these people asking why wouldn't she get a customer facing job really haven't got a clue about life at the bottom of society.

Is there any chance of involving your local MP, if only to highlight the plight of people such as this lady.

I did both those roles kitchen workers are washing pots/serving food. Zero qualifications needed. I did do some training as a dinner lady but it wasn't mandatory nor was there a pass/fail or any writing to do.

We live in a world where people with this woman's sort of disadvantages have no place - employers demand more than she has to offer even for the most menial tasks, as everyone has been painstakingly pointing out.

She does not need an "excuse" not to work - her circumstances debar her from virtually all jobs now.

Have a little humanity.

@wotwududo ofsted can ask to see records of staff completing mandatory training now.

Exactly. Can't stand the phrase "no excuses". It's nonsense, meaningless rubbish.

And I though that the woman that the OP is supporting was the illiterate one!

She cannot keep her own home clean
She is illiterate so would not qualify as a childminder
She is illiterate so wouldn't be able to do a work from home customer service job
Would you employ a TA who had learning difficulties and can't read or write well?
How would she do the online safeguarding and health & safety training required to be a lunchtime supervisor?

The woman is managing a few hours voluntary work in the back room of a charity shop. Imo she should be left to get on with that and the job centre should back off. Talk about kicking a person when they're down!!!

It you really want to work you will find work. Why can't she get a cleaning job?

And yes, even the most menial jobs will require you to be literate and personable in some form or able to use initiative. Very few jobs that don't. I just had a quick look online out of interest to see what you need in place to become a childminder. It is a fairly long winded rigorous process.

Very well said.

Where would she clean? If she lives in a poor area, there won't be much demand for house cleaners. If she was doing commercial cleaning, they may want early morning or late night workers...the ops friend has no childcare beyond standard school hours

Ok just read she can't clean - I've not read all of the commevts

She's tried. No one will employ her school hours. She doesn't have the intellectual capacity to become a sole trader, manage a business, organise her accounts, insurance and tax return etc

Rather ironically, can you read?

www.lancashire.gov.uk/media/926794/jdpsca.pdf
The job spec for catering assistant in a school on our council website sounds like it would fit Op’s friend. It’s putting chairs/tables out and washing up. Says limited number of routine procedures and minimal initiative.
Its 10 hours a week term time only 2 hours a day. Would need Op’s help to apply though.

@Comedycook so no one in her area has a cleaner ... ? Shops need cleaners / office blocks need cleaners - you need zero qualifications.

So why come up with stupid nasty comments then?
The jobs that used to exist for women like this are no longer there or if they are, you need childcare to be able to do them.

Correct...in poor areas and on council estates, people don't have cleaners

I also said in my post that cleaning jobs will often want people to work early mornings or late nights for obvious reasons. Offices and shops are cleaned in the morning before staff and customers arrive or late at night when no one is there.

OP, why do you think she should be working? I understand that she goes to interviews, only that she never gets the job (due to either hours being unsuitable, or lacking certain skills). As long as she keeps attending, the job centre will be happy. It seems like a stable enough situation, which, whilst not ideal, works for everyone. It is unlikely that a job will improve her financial circumstances, and from what you explained about her is likely to be a massive detriment to her parenting.

Oh and if you are a self employed cleaner cleaning houses you need insurance and the wherewithal to find clients and the ability to fill out tax returns

You're still at it? Yes, shops and offices do need cleaners, but usually early mornings or evenings. What do you suggest she does with her 5 year old?
At one time mothers used to have to leave their children home alone to do these roles. Do you suggest she does that?

There's a lot of people that fall into these cracks, including me I've got autism and some learning difficulties. With how the modern job seekers world is, it's incredibly difficult, compared to in the past in terms of job application process and the types on offer, others have explained it better than me.

The best solution would be to ask her charity shop about paid work and look for charities locally that can help support but they are very very few and far between and the paid things on offer tend to be temporary, a couple of months type thing but they tend to be a bit more understanding about hours and lieniant about your skills. It's incredibly difficult, lots just in the cracks unable to get employment and some of the posts on here show the disconnect, how on earth would she run a child minding business considering all the back story?

Commercial cleaning is outside business hours. She has no childcare. Again in past it accepted women on hard times would leave children in bed home alone while they cleaned early morning that’s not acceptable now.

Why hasn't she learnt how to read? Surely that is one thing she can do to help herself and greater her chances.

We have a cafe locally that employs people with learning difficulties. They do basics like serving or pouring drinks, collecting used plates from the tables and so on. They get paid proper wages too.
The supervisors do the cooking and anything that could be considered dangerous. I'm surprised more council's don't do the type of thing.

I don’t think she sounds unemployable. I think she sounds vulnerable in a brutal world. It shouldn’t be radical for employers to offer school hours or for the job centre to provide more assistance, to support her rather than bully her into work. There could be incentive schemes for employers to take on vulnerable people, there could be a transition to work scheme that includes a job bank specifically for vulnerable people, gee there could just be respect and dignity offered to all instead of marginalising the less able.

She could do picking, packing, shelf stacking, unboxing, work in a (plant) nursery, and probably many other things.

But design is a big problem, a huge estate beyond walking distance of a town centre, no childcare provision attached to the school, seemingly no flexibility on offer from the job centre… all of these are hallmarks of society overlooking its vulnerable.

As a previous poster pointed out, there are thousands of people in similar situations but their voices go unheard. Pretty much everything in the media is presented through the eyes of the privileged. Our news sources are full of the voices of big corporations and vacuous celebrities, very rarely do we hear from refugees or ethnic minorities or disabled or those living in poverty or with mental illness.

It is to the detriment of us all, the more inclusive a society the healthier it is for everyone.