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Original poster

The Staircase - what's your guys verdict?

118 replies

FT96 · 11/05/2022 13:35

Hey Everyone!

I've been watching the new series - just wondering what your guys opinion is -- husband guilty or not guilty?

OP posts:
Dauncets · 14/05/2022 14:12

Haven't seen the new one but after watching the existing Netflix series I thought he was guilty. It was weird as well given that there was no commentary which makes you feel it wasn't biased but it definitely was - eg there were some aspects eg evidence of strangulation that they didn't even refer to despite having around 16 hours of filming, banging on instead about that bloody blowpoke. Also yeah no one gets involved with two different women and they both die falling downstairs, no way.

I think the younger step daughter in particular looked like she was struggling with her feelings of suspicion and trying to find a way to disengage, under the surface, towards the end.

Also just look at his face during the sister in law's final speech which by the way was an incredible piece of impassioned testimony . He looked guilty as sin.

knittingaddict · 14/05/2022 14:14

Guilty.

AnneLovesGilbert · 14/05/2022 14:16

Guilty as sin. And the whole family dynamic is severely fucked up.

The other staircase death wasn’t his wife! Not sure why people keep saying she was.

His first wife and he got divorced and she weirdly seemed to disappear from their lives while Kathleen played mum to all of the children till she died when first wife reappeared and maybe even moved in?

Why and then why again? It’s all so weird.

Sophie Turner is very good in the new one.

TheYearOfSmallThings · 14/05/2022 14:23

Oh he did it.

UneFoisAuChalet · 14/05/2022 14:29

People need to remember it wasn’t his wife who died in Germany. It was Margaret and Martha’s mother.

I watched the Netflix doc years ago and I’m now watching the Colin Firth one now and I think it’s excellent. I like how they’ve re-enacted two different ways her death occurred. Both seem plausible 🤷‍♀️ I wonder if they’ll bring up the owl theory….

From the doc, was it hinted that he was the ‘real’ father of the girls? How do you end up adopting a neighbour’s children? Didn’t they have family?

But more importantly, how can you explain the lacerations on her skull? What type of weapon could cause that?

VeronicaVanHoopen · 14/05/2022 14:37

You need to listen to Chris Warburton's podcast on this. Something like Beyond A Reasonable Doubt. I went to the live recording of the final episode of the podcast. I'm pretty sure the guy was as guilty as sin! Haven't watched anything else on it since - the guy was shagging the producer of the Netflix documentary so it doesn't seem worth watching to me. Might watch the series when there's more of it to binge!

JohnPrescottsPyjamas · 14/05/2022 14:39

Wasn’t there a thing about him looking at gay porn on the internet and his wife found out? He tried to suggest that she knew he was BS and was ok with it, but the prosecution put forward a theory that she had confronted him and he’d reacted.

There was all sorts of odd things. He claimed they had been sitting outside for 45 minutes in the dark in the dead of winter (well below freezing) before she went inside and didn’t reappear, that she was potentially attacked by an owl on her way back into the house and congealed blood on the stairs implied she had been lying there for two hours before help was called.

Definitely guilty. My instinct is he had some kind of personality disorder that meant he was able to mentally detach himself from the crime. He almost seemed to enjoy being the centre of attention and everything being about him. Psychopathic tendency?

BOOTS52 · 14/05/2022 15:24

I watched the Netflix series that he I think made himself and he definitely did it and the whole family were bloodywell weird. Just seems too much of a coincidence that 2 women died in the same way. I didn't really like it but was compelled to watch it if that makes sense. What is the new series like? Does it offer more information or change anyone's opinion of whether he is guilty or not?

AllyCatTown · 14/05/2022 15:33

TigerLilyTail · 14/05/2022 14:08

I've read a number of theories about why people think he's guilty, but I've never read one yet that rings true. He was a writer and obviously an intelligent man, so I feel that if he was planning on killing her, then he would have really thought about the details. There are so many much easier ways to kill a person and get away with it.

For example:

He and his sons had money problems, so he decided to kill her like he killed his previous wife by pushing her down the stairs and making it look like an accident. But, this makes no sense to me as it's actually pretty hard to kill someone by pushing them down the stairs, so what would he have done is she had simply got up and run away?

Or, he hit her over the head with something (a blowpoke) and then pushed her down the stairs. But, again, it's actually quite hard to kill someone with a single blow to the head as the skull is so thick, and even 20 years ago, they had some forensics, so surely he would have considered this when he was planning on killing her?

Or she was lying at the bottom of the stairs dying and he held her down with his foot until she died of blood loss. But, what was his plan if she didn't die of blood loss or if someone walked into the house?

Or, maybe they had an argument at the top of the stairs and he spur of the moment pushed her down the stairs. I could see this happening but then all the stuff about his debts and his previous wife become irrelevant, so if he pushed her down the stairs and she hit her head, it's also possible she fell down the stairs.

I don't know, but if someone who thinks he is guilty could explain how he did it. I would be interested in hearing how. For example, the Helen Bailey killing. I can see how he planned it out, how he thought he'd get away with it. It makes sense to me. But, I can't see it with The Staircase killing.

I thought the prosecution argued there were 7 separate blows to the head. The forensics did look at the evidence hence why he was charged.

Does him discovering two women dead in very similar circumstances not make you suspicious? Both women weren’t elderly which is the group to usually have significant injuries in stair falls.

Invisablewoman · 14/05/2022 15:39

He was found guilty and later, when that conviction was quashed and a retrial ordered, entered a guilty plea to manslaughter. Admittedly, under US law he was able to do that in a way that meant he wasn't admitting liability. But it was an admission that the evidence was such that a jury would be likely to find him guilty.

She had too many injuries that could not be explained by a fall.

GeorgieTheGorgeousGoat · 14/05/2022 15:54

The producer of the Netflix was his (then) girlfriend hence the (crap) bias.

TigerLilyTail · 14/05/2022 15:56

I thought the prosecution argued there were 7 separate blows to the head. The forensics did look at the evidence hence why he was charged.

There were 7 lacerations but no skull fracture. What did he hit her with? Why was he not covered in blood. I think they found one blood spot on his shorts but if he had beaten her and hit her repeatedly over the head with something that caused that many deep cuts to her head, then he would have been covered too.

I'm not saying I think he's innocent. I just think the whole thing is really bloody weird.

You can read the autopsy here:

wwwcache.wral.com/asset/news/local/2008/08/19/3400859/1219199590-20080819151549211.pdf

iklboo · 14/05/2022 15:59

But, again, it's actually quite hard to kill someone with a single blow to the head as the skull is so thick,

It's not really. It depends on where you hit (I'm not a serial killer, honest).

AllyCatTown · 14/05/2022 16:00

It’s been a while since I looked into it but if he was alone with her he could have changed and got rid of the clothes. I’m not sure there’s evidence he had to have been wearing those clothes he was in when police came.

TigerLilyTail · 14/05/2022 16:04

iklboo · 14/05/2022 15:59

But, again, it's actually quite hard to kill someone with a single blow to the head as the skull is so thick,

It's not really. It depends on where you hit (I'm not a serial killer, honest).

I meant if it's pre-meditated. If you're a reasonably intelligent person who is planning to kill someone, would you really plot the perfect murder by hitting them on the head? It's such a risky way to try and kill someone. I can see it being in the heat of the moment and it was a freak blow. But people hit their heads hard all the time. What if he hit her, and she ran away and told someone?

HollowTalk · 14/05/2022 16:08

I think the identical claw marks make it almost impossible to think that he's innocent.

iklboo · 14/05/2022 16:14

The autopsy report looks like there were quite a few wounds which seemed defensive. The first blow may have incapacitated her to a degree she couldn't fight back. She was partially scalped in some areas - consistent with an assault. Most telling is the left thyroid cartilage fracture. That's normally only possible with blunt force trauma like a punch / blow to the throat or some degree of strangulation. He could have punched / hit her in the throat first meaning she wouldn't be able to shout or scream and breathing would have been difficult.

Another few blows to make sure and then push her downstairs maybe? I say guilty.

TigerLilyTail · 14/05/2022 16:44

I'm definitely going to watch the series and see how they explain it.

Floralnomad · 14/05/2022 16:51

Not guilty , they were a pair of functioning alcoholics so it’s feasible she fell down the stairs - he’s a weirdo but being a weirdo doesn’t mean you are a murderer . Apparently after he took the Alford plea to avoid another trial and avoid any more jail time the presiding judge said that there was probably enough conflicting evidence for him to have got a not guilty verdict .

Planesmistakenforstars · 14/05/2022 17:13

The owl is innocent.

MrsPelligrinoPetrichor · 14/05/2022 17:52

TigerLilyTail · 14/05/2022 14:08

I've read a number of theories about why people think he's guilty, but I've never read one yet that rings true. He was a writer and obviously an intelligent man, so I feel that if he was planning on killing her, then he would have really thought about the details. There are so many much easier ways to kill a person and get away with it.

For example:

He and his sons had money problems, so he decided to kill her like he killed his previous wife by pushing her down the stairs and making it look like an accident. But, this makes no sense to me as it's actually pretty hard to kill someone by pushing them down the stairs, so what would he have done is she had simply got up and run away?

Or, he hit her over the head with something (a blowpoke) and then pushed her down the stairs. But, again, it's actually quite hard to kill someone with a single blow to the head as the skull is so thick, and even 20 years ago, they had some forensics, so surely he would have considered this when he was planning on killing her?

Or she was lying at the bottom of the stairs dying and he held her down with his foot until she died of blood loss. But, what was his plan if she didn't die of blood loss or if someone walked into the house?

Or, maybe they had an argument at the top of the stairs and he spur of the moment pushed her down the stairs. I could see this happening but then all the stuff about his debts and his previous wife become irrelevant, so if he pushed her down the stairs and she hit her head, it's also possible she fell down the stairs.

I don't know, but if someone who thinks he is guilty could explain how he did it. I would be interested in hearing how. For example, the Helen Bailey killing. I can see how he planned it out, how he thought he'd get away with it. It makes sense to me. But, I can't see it with The Staircase killing.

I'm not sure he planned to kill her.

Have you watched the behaviour language experts on YouTube,that's really worth watching, he's lying all the way through it.

MrsPelligrinoPetrichor · 14/05/2022 17:54

UneFoisAuChalet · 14/05/2022 14:29

People need to remember it wasn’t his wife who died in Germany. It was Margaret and Martha’s mother.

I watched the Netflix doc years ago and I’m now watching the Colin Firth one now and I think it’s excellent. I like how they’ve re-enacted two different ways her death occurred. Both seem plausible 🤷‍♀️ I wonder if they’ll bring up the owl theory….

From the doc, was it hinted that he was the ‘real’ father of the girls? How do you end up adopting a neighbour’s children? Didn’t they have family?

But more importantly, how can you explain the lacerations on her skull? What type of weapon could cause that?

Next door neighbour who he was highly likely having an affair with.

MrsPelligrinoPetrichor · 14/05/2022 17:56

Hope that works

SleepQuest33 · 14/05/2022 18:20

I watched the Netflix documentary ages ago and I remember thinking he’s innocent. I must be a very naive person then!
The new drama series will be biased and will make the viewer take a particular view.

MrsPelligrinoPetrichor · 14/05/2022 18:21

SleepQuest33 · 14/05/2022 18:20

I watched the Netflix documentary ages ago and I remember thinking he’s innocent. I must be a very naive person then!
The new drama series will be biased and will make the viewer take a particular view.

It isn't so far.