How would you have reacted to this creepy man sitting next to you on a plane?

[HollyDayDream]

This happened about a week ago but still paying on my mind! I'm such a pushover and wish I was more assertive. Especially in front of my daughter. Luckily, she has a smarter head on her shoulders and tells me she would have called him out. Anyway, here is the situation that happened:

Travelled recently to holiday with my 13yo daughter. Row of three on the plane. DD at the window, me in the middle and man on the aisle seat.

Really uncomfortable to begin with as he spread himself out over two armrests and his leg kept brushing against mine. Neither of us overweight, so it was nothing that couldn't be helped in my opinion. I HATE confrontation, no matter how civil, but I eventually said something after about twenty minutes when it was still happening despite me pretty much folded into myself trying to read my book. He apologised gruffly and said 'Can't be too careful nowadays. Am I far enough away from you now?" I nodded and that was that. It happened again a few times over the duration of the five hour flight on and off for a few minutes but he was seemingly sleeping so I felt like I couldn't say anything more.

Me and DD needed the toilet around halfway through the journey. So i asked if he could let us out. He grumbled something but didn't get up. I again asked him to move but he said "there is plenty of space". I wasn't sure if he had mobility problems or something so I stupidly squeezed by. It was ridiculous. Hardly any room between his knees and the seat in front so we basically had to climb over him.

On the way back from the toilet, he appeared to be asleep again and wouldn't wake up despite me saying loudly "excuse me". So we squeezed by again. No idea how he didn't 'wake up' as we must have really bashed his legs to get to our seats.

At the end, as the flight crew were telling us we were landing soon and to put our belts on, the man said to me, "Ohhh she's strict, isn't she?" about the female manager/attendant in charge. I said something like, "she's professional, I suppose you have to appear strict after some recent behaviour from passengers in the news."

He then continued making comments about how strict she was and how he better do what he is told or he'd be asked to stay behind when everyone else had left. And actually he wouldn't mind staying behind with her as she was a gorgeous woman, didn't I agree. Luckily, DD had headphones on so didn't hear any of this. I nodded awkwardly and said she's very pretty yes, and pretended to be invested in my book. Then every time the woman said something, he made noises and comments like, "oh, yes, miss, whatever you say." I ignored and pretended not to hear as he was saying it very quietly anyway.

I told my DD what happened afterwards as I must have looked strange and she asked what was wrong. She was appalled I didn't do anything. She told me she would have called him out for acting like a pervert and asked the flight crew to move him. I'm very proud of her and I wanted to do this but I couldn't! I don't know why. I felt like I'd be making a fuss over nothing, overreacting, he'd deny doing anything deliberately and I'd look like an idiot for the rest of the flight withy people gossiping about me. And the flight was totally full so where could he have went? Imagine me demanding he got moved and then being told he couldn't move as there was nowhere to go, and I'd have to be stuck beside him anyway for five hours with him, feeling even more uncomfortable.

I'm ashamed as DD seemed so disappointed in me. She reminded me of another incident that happened last year on a city break.

A homeless man came into a cafe asking for some food. I offered him something from the menu. After he ordered, he then wrapped his arms around me and pulled me into him. I totally froze. He held me there for about ten seconds. DD afterwards asked me why I let him do that. I explained I had froze, but at the time, I was also thinking, I don't want to embarrass this man.

WTF is wrong with me and how do I become more assertive? Each time something like this happens, I keep thinking I'll act differently next time, but then I just become passive and let it happen. DD knows it's wrong but I want her to see me acting in the right way rather than just talking about what I should have done.

Sorry this is so long. Quite upset by it today, looking at holiday photos and annoyed this is the thing I remember most from it.

Not to be dismissive of your DD OP but teenage girls (remembering back to myself at that age and also becoming evident in my own DD who's 13) don't have your life experiences or the ability to think through the possible consequences of reacting in the way they think is 'right'. Yes we should all be able to call this shit out every single time but it's not always possible, safe or in your best interests to do so.

I would use this experience to talk through with DD why you didn't react differently (no other seats/one exit from airport etc) and try to find solutions together which would have been safe. Teaching her to think these situations through will help her keep her own safety at the forefront of her decisions when she inevitably encounters other creepy men as she goes through her life.

I'm not saying you shouldn't work on your assertiveness, we can all think of ways we could have handled things better after the event and it's always useful to learn from that but I don't think you should be beating yourself up for this one. Women learn to risk-assess by necessity (that's what I mean when I say teenage girls don't have our life experiences) and that's exactly what you did, yes you could probably have shut him down as some PP's have suggested but hindsight is a wonderful thing and you did what kept you safe in that situation.

It was creepy him expecting you to climb over him. I would have said I didn't want to do that, if he persisted, I would have gone quiet, hit the call button and asked the crew to ask him to stand up to let me out, on my return when he was pretending to be asleep, the same, get the crew to wake him. If I don't want to play along with a conversation I just ignore, sometimes preceded with a back turn or Paddington bear stare.

It's difficult though OP, my skills were developed over a lifetime. I would have had a similar reaction to you when younger. I was on a flight with a creepy bloke when I was 17 - he was touching my dress near my breasts saying it was pretty and I froze. These days I would ask him what the hell he thought he was up to. And I would involve the cabin crew and ask to be moved if possible.

He is a complete stranger, you'll likely never see him again, he knew what he was doing in making you uncomfortable, you don't owe him your politeness, you likely felt on edge through the flight due to his behaviour, so why not stand up for yourself next time and make the next creepy guy as uncomfortable as you. Although your instinct is to freeze, maybe use that freeze time as thinking time and then complain about the behaviour or address it after the fact.

Whenever I encounter Dick Man who is disparaging or verbally rude I explain that I have deafness and ask them to repeat what they said, then a second time, and that usually solves their mostly mysoginistic rants. They are often just goading and looking for a reaction, and you don't have to be deaf to say it either, although I am.

When I was in my 20s I had a long flight from Delhi sitting next to a man who had the aisle seat and each time I asked politely to get out he just stared at me as if he didn't understand, so I had no option but to climb over him, much as you describe. It was 30 years ago and the person I am now would deal with it very differently!

I think lots of us would think "oh I would have done this or that" problem I find is being caught off guard .I would not worry .You have shown your DD this behaviour is unacceptable .However so many women are taught "Not to make a fuss" "dont draw attention to yourself"and so on. In the middle of a crowded plane you would feel this social conditoning .Men like this are Arseholes!

It's awful, that guy on the plain. To be honest, I think until something like that happens to you it's hard to imagine how difficult it can be to manage. I'l never forget a man, a stranger, in my home getting right up next to me. I also froze and remained polite, and my own behaviour was a shock to me, a real eye opener. I'm now more prepared, but it's really hard to know how to manage.

Is there any point going over what you could have done? Each situation is unique, but keep an eye on your boundaries, notice when they're being breached and start paying attention fast when it happens so that you can think your way through it. The last time I travelled I went to an empty part of the concourse to read my book quietly and a man came up and sat right next to me. I looked him in the eye so that he was in no doubt that I saw him and only then did I get up and move. Not polite, but also no requests to him or questions that he can choose to answer or not. I didn't engage him at all. With your airplane man, when he responded that he wasn't going to move I would have pressed the call button, also on the return, never crawl around and up and close with a man you don't know.

Freezing and being supposedly polite are bred in to us, don't feel ashamed on top if it all, it's not your fault. It's his, but you can learn to stop your response and change for the better.

Ugh, full sympathy. I too have experienced a man on a plane who insisted on me climbing over him - I was in my early 20s and still feel annoyed about it today, in my mid 40s. It's difficult because some people know just the right thing to say when faced with a pervy man and aren't afraid to say it. I'm like you in that I'm left floundering by situations like this. It's only afterwards that I think of what I should have said and feel annoyed at myself. I'm not a pushover generally but situations like this take me by surprise (I suspect this is intentional).

He hugged you because you were kind; you'd have looked a bit silly yourself if you'd have done anything other than accepted it.

Yes OP you'd have looked very silly for objecting to a man encroaching on your personal space and making you feel uncomfortable when he was trying to be nice.

This is the problem. Women are conditioned not to make a scene and to endure their own discomfort if the alternative is making a man feel uncomfortable or foolish.

I think you need to unpick why you feel you have less right to personal space and common courtesy?

The man on the plane knew what he was doing and he was enjoying your discomfort, it's misogynistic power play. No one makes someone climb over them to get out of their seat on a plane. Please understand this man had no respect for you before you had any interaction with him, calling him out would not have made him think less of you. Why should a person like that be spared the embarrassment of being called out whilst you suffer instead.

I think if you had approached the cabin crew they might have found a way of moving you or him without a scene.

I wonder if its the worth contacting the airline and asking them what assistance the cabin crew could have given you if you'd spoken to them.

You have a right to determine and assert your own boundaries.

Contact the airline and advise them that you expect him to have a lifetime ban, and report the hug to the police as assault.

@balalake

Contact the airline and advise them that you expect him to have a lifetime ban, and report the hug to the police as assault.

?!

@balalake

Contact the airline and advise them that you expect him to have a lifetime ban, and report the hug to the police as assault.

You want an airline to ban a customer for not lifting their legs up so people can get past them? And you want a homeless person who hugged someone to say thanks to be done for assault? It's actually people like you who, seeing abuse everywhere, make it so very difficult for the authorities to deal with real abuse.

I’d have had a word with the cabin crew. They’re used to dealing with awkward passengers.

Op - I get how you feel and felt at the time.
Regarding the homeless man, it most likely was an overwhelming moment for him but still an invasion of you. But it mostly sounds like he wanted to thank you rather than being sexually inappropriate or misogynistic.
The man on the plane is something else.
Good advice from a pp for future occasions- use the call button and ask for assistance- I will remember that.
Also a good idea to say, louder than requires “Please repeat yourself “.. men like that get a power trip from intimidation.
I wish I were tougher earlier in life. I think previous (childhood abuse) experiences mean I tend to joke or make witty put downs.
After I was sexually assaulted by my daughter’s paediatric consultant (and the terrible aftermath of not being believed because I didn’t react or say anything or report it immediately £ is an experience I’ll never forget and will learn and pass on to girls and women. Freeze response is normal. It isn’t weakness or guilt or evidence of going along with it. We are sometimes obliged to keep ourselves safe first and foremost (which is why we freeze), especially when physically trapped/you feel trapped (eg by the homeless man because you’d done something nice etc - social conditioning runs very very deep)

Freeze response is normal. It isn’t weakness or guilt or evidence of going along with it. We are sometimes obliged to keep ourselves safe first and foremost (which is why we freeze), especially when physically trapped/you feel trapped (eg by the homeless man because you’d done something nice etc - social conditioning runs very very deep)

^^ This

People talk about the fight or flight response, but it is actually fight, flight or freeze.

Why didn't your daughter say something when you both had to squeeze past twice?

You keep mentioning how assertive she is

On the way back from the toilet, he appeared to be asleep again

Yeah Right! He was feigning sleep so he did not have to move so you had to brush against him. I would have 'accidentally' trod on his feet and I am no dainty doll!!!

Well, we all like to think that we'd have stood on our seats and walked over the blokes thighs ideally poking his genitals on the way over but keeping things low key is sometimes the safer option however shit that is. Escalating a situation with a man in a confined space is rarely a good idea.

The beauty of getting old is not caring what people think. No way would I have attempted to squeeze past plane man. “Please get up and let me out” in a very firm tone, loud enough for other passengers to hear. “Please move your leg” when he manspread. Channel your grumpy old woman @HollyDayDream.

Good comments @Blossomtoes I don’t think being old necessarily makes women more assertive though, we are all still individuals. At 70 I’d certainly have put the creep back in his box but similarly aged friends would have smiled and simpered.

Us oldies have grown up with this shit - back in the day we endured playful bottom smacking in the workplace, handsy bosses, leery comments about well filled jumpers. No assistance from older women, just whispered warnings to steer clear of these men (coz otherwise it’s our fault?).

This man demanded submissive bodily contact from a woman. “Climb over me coz I’ve told you to do that”. How bloody dare he.

I wouldn’t have confronted plane dick either with a potential 5 hour journey. However if he had said he was refusing to move then I would have called the cabin crew to ask him to move as I would not crawl over him. And when I came back to the seat if he was pretending to sleep I would have again called the cabin crew and asked them to get him to move. He wanted you and your daughter to crawl over him because he’s a massive wanker.

Can I chip in to say that some research also adds in a fourth response type, to fawn. So you acquiesce and act in a subservient manner.
I think in many ways girls and women are conditioned to respond in this way.

My advice is to use the situation not to beat yourself up but to think about the options and choices you do have in those scenarios, chat through the pros and cons with your daughter, where might you find allies to help you etc. So it’s learning from the experience not simply ruminating in an unhealthy way.

There are too many men around like this so I do my best to mitigate these situations. For example travelling on my own I would only sit in the aisle seat. In your situation I would have done middle seat and aisle seat.

As regards the other situation, freezing is normal but again perhaps you could think about how you can avoid this.

Before another poster comes on and says we shouldn't have to do this, I know that but unfortunately a lot of men don't give a shit, aren't going to change because they are so entltled.