How would you have reacted to this creepy man sitting next to you on a plane?

[HollyDayDream]

This happened about a week ago but still paying on my mind! I'm such a pushover and wish I was more assertive. Especially in front of my daughter. Luckily, she has a smarter head on her shoulders and tells me she would have called him out. Anyway, here is the situation that happened:

Travelled recently to holiday with my 13yo daughter. Row of three on the plane. DD at the window, me in the middle and man on the aisle seat.

Really uncomfortable to begin with as he spread himself out over two armrests and his leg kept brushing against mine. Neither of us overweight, so it was nothing that couldn't be helped in my opinion. I HATE confrontation, no matter how civil, but I eventually said something after about twenty minutes when it was still happening despite me pretty much folded into myself trying to read my book. He apologised gruffly and said 'Can't be too careful nowadays. Am I far enough away from you now?" I nodded and that was that. It happened again a few times over the duration of the five hour flight on and off for a few minutes but he was seemingly sleeping so I felt like I couldn't say anything more.

Me and DD needed the toilet around halfway through the journey. So i asked if he could let us out. He grumbled something but didn't get up. I again asked him to move but he said "there is plenty of space". I wasn't sure if he had mobility problems or something so I stupidly squeezed by. It was ridiculous. Hardly any room between his knees and the seat in front so we basically had to climb over him.

On the way back from the toilet, he appeared to be asleep again and wouldn't wake up despite me saying loudly "excuse me". So we squeezed by again. No idea how he didn't 'wake up' as we must have really bashed his legs to get to our seats.

At the end, as the flight crew were telling us we were landing soon and to put our belts on, the man said to me, "Ohhh she's strict, isn't she?" about the female manager/attendant in charge. I said something like, "she's professional, I suppose you have to appear strict after some recent behaviour from passengers in the news."

He then continued making comments about how strict she was and how he better do what he is told or he'd be asked to stay behind when everyone else had left. And actually he wouldn't mind staying behind with her as she was a gorgeous woman, didn't I agree. Luckily, DD had headphones on so didn't hear any of this. I nodded awkwardly and said she's very pretty yes, and pretended to be invested in my book. Then every time the woman said something, he made noises and comments like, "oh, yes, miss, whatever you say." I ignored and pretended not to hear as he was saying it very quietly anyway.

I told my DD what happened afterwards as I must have looked strange and she asked what was wrong. She was appalled I didn't do anything. She told me she would have called him out for acting like a pervert and asked the flight crew to move him. I'm very proud of her and I wanted to do this but I couldn't! I don't know why. I felt like I'd be making a fuss over nothing, overreacting, he'd deny doing anything deliberately and I'd look like an idiot for the rest of the flight withy people gossiping about me. And the flight was totally full so where could he have went? Imagine me demanding he got moved and then being told he couldn't move as there was nowhere to go, and I'd have to be stuck beside him anyway for five hours with him, feeling even more uncomfortable.

I'm ashamed as DD seemed so disappointed in me. She reminded me of another incident that happened last year on a city break.

A homeless man came into a cafe asking for some food. I offered him something from the menu. After he ordered, he then wrapped his arms around me and pulled me into him. I totally froze. He held me there for about ten seconds. DD afterwards asked me why I let him do that. I explained I had froze, but at the time, I was also thinking, I don't want to embarrass this man.

WTF is wrong with me and how do I become more assertive? Each time something like this happens, I keep thinking I'll act differently next time, but then I just become passive and let it happen. DD knows it's wrong but I want her to see me acting in the right way rather than just talking about what I should have done.

Sorry this is so long. Quite upset by it today, looking at holiday photos and annoyed this is the thing I remember most from it.

The man wanted to hug you to say thank you and you went with it and then regretted it and wished you hadn't. That sounds understandable. The guy on the plane was being a dick and for some reason you engaged with him perhaps more than you should have done. What is more weird to me is that you pick these situations to tear apart with your daughter about what you should have done. She didn't witness you on the plane so why did you feel the need to gain her reassurance afterwards? Maybe the first step is to stop checking in with your daughter and find your own way.

It’s just social conditioning. Maybe think about these as harmless learning opportunities (as in no real harm came to you) for you to build up some boundaries - ie I don’t like physical contact with male strangers, how can I stop this /ask firmly etc.

For example, we went for drinks with a neighbour and they’d invited people we didn’t know (very wealthy people who looked down on where we live we found!) and instead of being assertive I sort of giggled along with their shitty comments about our area. It gave me a chance to decide 1. Not to attend any more events organised by neighbour and 2. To think of some polite get outs for this type of comment

You have a 'freeze' response when something happens that in others might trigger fight or flight. It's nothing to be ashamed of.

I would have told him to shut the fuck up. But I’m told I’m a bitch and not nice. So…

In answer to your question of how I would have responded: I wouldn't contemplate going on a flight without headphones on, and I would have avoided engaging with him as much as possible. I don't go on public transport to make friends. I wouldn't have been confrontational in an environment such as that, but I also wouldn't have given him an audience. It sounds a bit like he was goading you.

Best thing you can do OP learn from how you felt and if it happens again and you have people around you, call the person out. Your reaction was normal though as it's a lot easier to do things with the benefit of hindsight. In the moment, things are a lot trickier.

Might not work for you but I deal with letches by pointing out how inadequate they are.

‘You wouldn’t stand a chance with a beautiful woman like that, she’s way out of your league.’

That kind of thing shuts them up, especially if you are smirking or laughing as you say it.

I've been trapped by a man trying to kiss me on a plane which was terrifying. It's all very well saying you'd say something, but there's literally no where to go, it's unlikely other passengers or crew will do much to help unless they get violent and you're still at risk when you get off because there's only one exit from the airport building. Appeasement is therefore often the safest course of a action, but it feels utterly shit and means they got away with it. You didn't do anything wrong, he did.

The guy on the plane, he was a knob and there wasn't a huge amount you could do (unless there were spare seats)
I think I would have "accidentally kneed him quite hard whilst attempting to clamber over him.
The bit at the end, you felt obliged to join in out of politeness, despite the fact that he hadn't been polite to you.
I'd suggest you perfect a hard, cold stare followed by turning your back. I find this quite effective when dealing with unwelcome comments.
The homeless man, I don't see a huge amount wrong with it tbh, you were nice to him, he hugged you then presumably went on your way.
Again, just work on a friendly way to step out of a hug so you feel more comfortable.
Above all though, stop being so hard on yourself. You did your best with a difficult situation and the real problem with all of it is the mental kicking you're giving yourself.

Plane man being a bit of a dick but not much you could've done and you're absolutely overanalysing what you did/didn't do.

Homeless man- just a non-story really. He hugged you because you were kind; you'd have looked a bit silly yourself if you'd have done anything other than accepted it.

Hed have had a shock if overweight me climbed over him i would have kicked him by accident(on purpose) aswell

The plane passenger was a dick. You gave that homeless man something he needed. And it wasn't just food.

I think this means you are always aware of how you appear to others. I mean that if you weren't aware you might have shouted out at homeless grabber and possibly been brusque, annoyed looking at the perv next to you on the plane. I'm old and grumpy now and don't care much how I appear to others, whether I embarrass someone, so would have been more likely to respond like that - though I probably wouldn't get perved at on a plane or hugged by a stranger

Perhaps some counselling to work out why you are self conscious.

Meh, he sounds annoying but I don't think you did anything wrong. And would your daughter REALLY have told him where to go or is she just saying that?

I think best to just ignore idiots like him, yeah he was unreasonable and rude but I don't really know what you could've done about it.

Fucking hell. All these posters telling you you should be ok with the homeless man hugging you can do one.
You didn’t know him. You didn’t want him to touch you. It’s ok that you found that traumatic. People who like hugs should have the decency to ask first. Some of us would rather step on thumb tacks than be hugged by strangers. I would have found it hard not to scream in that situation. I don’t like hugs from friends and extended family let alone a stranger. Him being homeless does not excuse his lack of respect for other people’s boundaries.

Plane man was a creep. I would have woken him up rather than squeeze past.

@RemusLupinsBiggestGroupie

Plane man being a bit of a dick but not much you could've done and you're absolutely overanalysing what you did/didn't do.

Homeless man- just a non-story really. He hugged you because you were kind; you'd have looked a bit silly yourself if you'd have done anything other than accepted it.

This 100% Two unrelated episodes.

I was in the passport queue last weekend with a bloke who kept trying to get into mansplaining conversation about the (female) local security staff etc. I just turned my back eventually. I've sat next to stroppy gits of both sexes who use both armrests and splay their legs out and not got up when I've wanted to get up.

Plane man was inconsiderate, but that's about it.

Eugh. I understand how you feel OP. Just the other night in a busy and unfamiliar pub I was on my way back from the ladies to DP and our friends when a man I'd just passed in the corridor called me back. I thought maybe I'd dropped something as I passed so went over, at which point he told me I was the most gorgeous woman in the pub (reader: I was far from it) then grabbed me in a hug and sloppily kissed me on both cheeks.

I froze. I wish I'd told him to get the hell off me, or to fuck off. But I didn't, I let him because it felt like if I'd objected he could have got aggressive, or followed me back to our table and caused an issue / ruined everyones night.

This kind of stuff happens too often and while I can talk a good game about standing up for myself and putting sleazy Men in their place when it comes down to it I rarely feel comfortable enough to do so

You need to practise. Practise alone and soon it is easy. I used to be like you and have countless cringing memories of exactly the type of thing you describe. Now I have quite a few automatic responses that trip off the tongue for these creeps. My DD is an extremely beautiful 17 and for years I have been literally repelling men from her.
"You are in my personal space, move"
"why are you standing so close to her, get away"
"What are you doing"

I find men regularly try and make me and my DD squeeze pas them and I just say no now. "No, I won't, move or I'll make a scene"

A good one when they make creepy comments is to get the attention of the person they are being repulsive about immediately, "Hi, sorry this man was talking over you could you repeat that" - they SHIT themselves.

The armrest man spreading can be tricky but again "Move your arm, you are in my space" with a hard stare.

The man in the cafe, "You are welcome, don't touch me I don't know you"

Just practise all the time and praise your DD for her attitude - she sounds excellent.

I wouldn’t have said anything to begin with and grunted mmm at the most BUT I would have created a fuss when he wouldn’t move and I’d have created a scene until he “woke” up to let me back in again.

Actually after the squeezing past incidents I’d probably have realised he was a perv and then I would probably have made a derogatory comment to him.
Until I’m 100% sure, I give people the benefit of the doubt but then I’d say something.

Homeless man was just grateful-bit clumsy showing it but suspect not many people had shown him kindness.

Plane man total arse.

But the different reactions between you and your daughter are I suspect a generation thing. Look at the me too movement. Issue been there for years but girls finally learning to speak out & not tolerate shit behaviour. Still a long way to go though...

I think you shouldn't overworry about your reactions to men being rude, intimidating and dickish. You are not to blame for not dealing well enough with his shitty behaviour.

There's been some great suggestions on here for being more assertive. But please don't feel bad about your reactions. You are not the problem!!

Thanks everyone so much. I'm feeling far less annoyed at myself now. Awful, but kind of helps knowing other people have similar reactions and i'm not odd. I definitely try too hard to be polite and not make other people uncomfortable. This sometimes means that I'm the one uncomfortable. E.g. not to embarrass someone, I will let them hug me even though I hate hugs (even from friends let alone strangers!); I will respond to someone if they talk to me, even if I don't like what they're saying. I will literally climb over someone and make a fool of myself rather than bother them to move!

Practising a few stock phrases sounds like a good idea. I really felt like i had to keep plane man 'on side though' as we were trapped together for five hours. If i'd made a face, or said something dismissive, he might have become quite rude and made the remainder of the journey even more uncomfortable. Taking earphones is a simple, great, 'polite' way to ignore people. I'll make sure I take them next trip.

Yes, I was coming on here to say that your daughter, like my DC have grown up in a different era to ourselves.
I have countless occasions when I could kick myself for not realising quick enough, or reacting strongly enough at situations. All I can say is that with each little incident, you learn a little and take it forward to the next time.
It's a damn shame that we are constantly having to deal with this sort of crap