Hepatitis outbreak in children

[MumbleCrumbs]

I'm currently really quite unwell with Covid and not sleeping very well so please be gentle, but is anyone else really worried about the reports of this hepatitis outbreak in children now being monitored by the WHO? It seems to have gained traction over the last few days and lots of reports coming out about it now. I know very little about hepatitis but I know its quite rare to see such severe cases in children. Could Covid be the cause? I'm just feeling really quite worried about it and so sad for these poor children and their families, how horrendous after we've all just come through a pandemic .

(not Mumsnetters...........who have an attack of the guilts about how their own fear of Covid led them to scream for longer harder lockdowns under the guise of "dont kill granny" So normalised has lockdown become that being anti lockdown is used as a smear. Oh not forgetting far right being used as a smear and the new trend of calling someone something they quite obviously arent, e.g calling Russell Brand far right.

Screening-diabetes
deleted- depleted

Russell Brand has lost the plot, whether you call him right wing or not.

Also a more worry post Covid complication is the increase in strokes in the adult population. A warning has been issued to expect strokes in younger adults with no underlying cause.
DH has just had a stroke at 60. He had developed high blood pressure (asymptomatic) over the pandemic. He was a smoker but the medics were surprised that he’d had a stroke because he was otherwise healthy. In hindsight he had a number of TIAs after his last Covid infection. He was fully vaccinated. We both had Covid in early 2020 then again in Sep 2021.
The stats are far more significant regarding the relationship of stroke post Covid than this hepatitis outbreak.

Yes the stroke increases are very worrying.

I bet i can guess which scientists will get smeared.

This is making me feel sick.

This is making me feel sick.

Thank you. And well put.

Given cases have now been reported in 12 countries, there will no doubt be more anomalies to investigate with regard to the current theories. It is interesting to note that in Australia, and particularly in Melbourne, which newspapers like to call "the most locked down city in the world", though it is apparently not strictly true, we have had no cases.

@90s2now you need to take him to the gp

This thread shows all that is the problem with debates about covid.

They don't know what the cause is but are looking at all factors including the impact of lockdowns AND the impact of covid. It could be that both are a factor, or neither.

It's not either / or.

But it is suggestive that those countries / parts of countries most affected are those where young children not vaccinated and covid rife in the younger demographic (e.g. UK schools with no mitigations).

Covid is known to cause higher susceptibility to other illness well after infection - the massively increased rate of increased stroke and heart attack after covid infection for example. This is well evidenced.

We'll just have to wait to know for sure, but it does seem like things like ventilation and air filtration in schools which would reduce incidence of adenovirus AND covid AND improve attendance AND quality teaching (through less teacher time off sick) might just be the good idea pretty much all scientists have been saying it is.

I suspect it has to do with covid. My uncle actually died in teh first wave with hepatitis brought on by covid. It does affect the organs

Just to reiterate
16% of the children in the study had had Covid. 77% a recent a adenovirus...

Dr Chand herself has said ‘children are being infected by the virus because they had not been exposed to it during the formative years due to the restrictions in the pandemic’.

Yes lots of theories are being discussed but if it is Covid then 84% of the children with this condition haven’t had Covid. I’m no expert but..

And yes this thread does show everything that is wrong with our attitude to Covid (prioritising it above everything else, including our children’s health and mental well-being).

Nothing has been proven yet. But the experts have been pretty vocal on their thoughts..

@Delatron my understanding is that the number if cases you are mentioning are ACTIVE cases.
But that the number if children who have had covid (several months before) is much much higher.

on the other side, it’s very hard to measure the adenovirus and know if this is an active case or not. There seems to be many issues with what sort if measures/tests have been done and how hence why it’s hard to make any assumptions. Esp as adenoviruses are pretty common.

I agree btw that if you Want to look at covid effect, you can’t just look at active cases. Covid can have long term effects that don’t appear just when people are ill (whether it’s children or adults).

Whether it is the case or not is still out though.

Reading the research paper it sounds like they are going to find it hard to prove Covid.

I hope they get to the bottom of it whatever it is.

I just find it interesting that all these doctors and experts are suggesting they think it’s to do with lockdown and no I don’t think the papers are misquoting them. Yes they ran with the headlines but many are saying they think it’s down to lack of exposure to viruses and illnesses in the early years.

We will need much more than one research paper to get to the bottom of that.

That's just very preliminary findings, because they are trying to rush out information to clinicians as it becomes available. I've never known a national research project take off so quickly, not even the Covid ones. There are some bloody big brains working very hard on this. And I am grateful to them for trying to get us data.

This thread reminded me of something I read a few years ago...

www.theguardian.com/society/2018/may/21/most-common-childhood-cancer-partly-caused-by-lack-of-infection

@Olivestone That’s so worrying.

I think we’re yet to see the health implications of isolation/social distancing and lockdowns on children. No wonder so many doctors are speaking out with their opinions. Too late now though. Let’s hope some lessons are learnt.

I agree with @delatron that it's really important to listen to the scientists here.

The technical briefing is a document put together by scientists for scientists summarising the current data & working hypotheses, rather than a research paper. In that document, the current leading hypothesis is that there is a cofactor which means that the adenovirus is affecting children differently. The scientists who wrote the briefing say this cofactor could be lockdown, or it could be COVID, or it could be something else.

The most important thing which will be kept front and centre by the scientists is that they are seeking to find out what is affecting these children, what has triggered it, how it can be treated, how it spreads, how it can be prevented. They aren't trying to 'prove COVID' or 'prove lockdown' - they are trying to work out how to stop children getting ill and help those who are ill to recover.

@Delatron I agree.
Children born since 2020 have reduced IQ's. They are having speech problems due to adults wearing masks and lack of contact with peers, family etc. My child was born in 2020 and his speech is behind.

And then there is the immune system issues and who knows what else.

The number of children I know who have NOT had a previous covid infection is I think now 1. No, actually, 2 if you count the one that's dropped out of school due to health problems (which her consultant has said can be exacerbated by covid) and so is homeschooling.

The entire of DD1s secondary class have all had it at least one, most of them twice, some three times.

All of her teachers have had it at least once, most of them twice, some three times.

The percentage of kids who haven't had it at all in the UK now must be vanishingly small for any not CEV / CV / homeschooling. And of course now we don't even have to test, many more will have had it without a positive test or even knowing.

Given the known and proven increase in risk of other conditions post covid, it's a bit of an issue that we won't know for sure any more, but I don't think doctors will go far wrong by assuming if they're in school they've had it at some point.

Any children in UK schools will have had great exposure to bugs since sept 2021, mine have been off loads with various viruses, they've definitely not had any lower exposure than pre-covid. 75% of the class were in from JAn-March 8th 2021, so only two months off anyway and most children in (without masks or social distancing).

UK schools don't allow for social distancing.

It'll be interesting to see the rate of overall illness in UK kids - schools without mitigations - compared to those countries where they have had mitigations. We'll eventually know what's been important but far too late to do anything about it other than pick up the pieces either way.

I agree that for younger children - the 0-3 cohort - baby groups were shut for longer so those children not in nursery (wonder what percentage that is?) will have had lower than normal exposure. But not kids in school. Are the rates of hepatitis higher in the 0-3 than the 5-16 cohort? Because that would be suggestive of reduced exposure to bugs being an issue. If not, then not really.

I am very worried about this. Ok if your child recovers, but if they need a liver transplant they won’t even survive till they grow up, your lifespan after a transplant is 5-20 years. I’d prefer my child to die immediately than to live for ten years and deal with the trauma of growing up knowing they’re going to die young. Most cases of whatever this is are in the UK, it’s terrifying.

Yea @theemperorhasnoclothes it’s the younger children 0-5 that they are seeing this issue in mainly.

@Olivestone Im reading all these reports coming out with horror. Children will be the ones most affected by the pandemic and the ones least to benefit from it. We’ve thrown them under the bus. Babies, toddlers, the children starting reception very far behind.