If you don't shout at your children, what do you do when they don't listen?

[Ohmnomnom]

I feel like I'm destroying the relationship between me and Dd7 She's a well behaved, kind and sweet girl, but she does. Not. Listen. Every morning I'll ask her to go get dressed and this begins an endless stream of questions, faffing, distraction techniques, and doing just about everything except the thing I asked her to do. I'm also constantly repeating myself about putting rubbish in the bin, flushing the toilet, dirty clothes in the washing basket, etc.

Do I need to lower my expectations? I get so frustrated after asking the same thing over and over 20 times that I start to raise my voice. She's quite shy and sensitive and I feel like I'm crushing her spirit even more. Whenever I ask her why she doesn't do what I ask, she gets very upset and says 'I don't know'.

Making it into a fun game is the only way that works for all of us without burning out from all the shouting and threats. I find if I send my DD to school in tears I feel shit all morning. But if I dig deep and try and be “fun mum” for half an hour, I can send her to school and get on with my day quickly.

I rarely shout at DS. He's 14 now. I find a low voice when I'm cross is more effective. Shouting all the time is utterly pointless, kids just become immune to it and listen even less. Where are the consequences for not doing as she is told? And are you telling? None of this "pretty please will you get dressed" business, it isn't negotiable. Consistent routine and discipline is what is needed and follow through. No TV after school means no TV after school.

Everything set out and ready the evening before.
Set a timer for getting dressed..can you beat yesterday's time? Keep a daily list on the wall and celebrate the best day's time with a little dance/special music/high five.

Gold star or pebble each day for (whatever habit you're focusing on each week). Reward can be anything you decide...eg: one star earned = 5 minutes of mum's total attention and time to play/do whatever child chooses on a Friday evening. So a star every weekday morning earns 25 minutes of uninterrupted child directed mum-time.

First one all ready to go and by the door gets to sit in the passenger front seat of the car to school....

Always try to notice, praise and reward the good behaviour.

I try never to shout at home since I think it’s really unhelpful. In the case of questions etc I would be quite blunt and say something like ‘please don’t ignore me when I’ve asked you to do something, go and do x.’ Basically disengage from any chatter etc and repeat what you’ve asked them to do. Also with ds8 I would literally turn him/take him to what he’s supposed to be doing and just repeat in a boring voice ‘do x now please’ until it’s done. I think this makes it so that they realise it’s quicker to do what’s been asked otherwise they won’t be able to chat etc.

Also, and I know this isn’t one that’s pleasant, but get up earlier. The times when I’m most tempted to shout is when we’re running late, nothing’s done, I’m stressed etc. I get up earlier than we need to, all clothes are set out by the children with supervision the night before (older two now do independently) and I wake them up ages before we need to leave. I don’t give breakfast, allow toys, tv etc until they’re washed and dressed otherwise I find everything becomes a ‘five more minutes’ ploy.

I do think some of the stuff could have natural consequences or preventative measures too - just like the no leaving room to play until dressed could prevent the faffing. With the not putting rubbish in the bin I’d make it that all snacks need to be asked for and eaten with supervision at the table when you’re not busy, since otherwise she leaves the rubbish on the floor. Then it’s the routine of snack-table-bin, rather than just wandering round and dropping rubbish.

I do also think telly in the mornings is really distracting. So I would consider dropping it or maybe only on once dressed.

OK I'm going to say a lot of the same things:

One word "socks", and if she starts about dragons, slightly harder voice "socks now DD".

But also humour, "DD I will promise you a bath of chocolate milk if you just put on your socks" or collapse on the floor crying "ssoooooooocks for the love of all that's holy"

And also, "DD I love dragons and I want to hear about them but I won't have time to hear about it if you don't get ready" Every time she arses about "oh no DD that's a minute of Dragon Chat lost"

Also DD is exactly like this and has ADHD. And girls are often not diagnosed.

Bargain or bribe, counting and consequences usually works for me. My DS is younger than 7 though, so it may not work in future!

Sounds tough- managing everything.
I’d invest some time trying to increase independence.
Maybe a set of plastic drawers, all uniform for one day in one drawer, including underwear.
Then a checklist/ ticklist of what to do, accompanied by a timer. We use alexa- set a timer for x minutes. Rewards for everything done. I got one of those big art sets, took everything out of the box, then my dd could chose a reward/ item to put back in the box each time I wanted to reward her.

Then a little bit of time chatting about being a team, needing her help to get things together so you can have fun time.

For non routine requests, I use mini white board and write down the 2 or 3 steps that she needs to complete to succeed.

Lastly, conscious effort to be calm. And I reward myself on a Friday night with wine. Be kind to yourself- it’s tough!!

Super nanny had an episode like that. She made a grid with a list of everything the child needed to do, and then set a timer / put a song on. Child was ready to leave the house in about 7 minutes with zero reminders. I think try something like that and make it into an achievable competition. Then you can just reward her when she achieves it.

Sounds just like my dd! I soon came to realise she wants me to do things with her. So when she won’t get dressed and starts kicking off, I know it’s actually because she wants me to help. We then pick out clothes and I sit with her. Much easier, no need to shout. Shouting doesn’t work with mine, though I can’t claim it never happens, it’s simply ineffective.

She just wants your attention, so accept it, stop fighting it and she will soon dress herself.

Drop expectations on other things too, such as loo flushing, just gentle reminders. Seriously there is no need to shout over this stuff all the time, but I get it. Very frustrating! We all get annoyed and raise our voices sometimes, so give yourself some slack! And next time you get angry, try to stay calm and ask them to help you by making sure they do x/y/z. They will get there. Sending hugs as we’ve all been there!

I am very firm and concise with my words and expectations and pre empty situations by thinking ahead (DD turns satanic when hungry).
My silences seem to have more power than shouting, as does my "blobfish face of disapproval".

Option 1

Your assuming she's capable of this based on her age. You need to go back a couple of steps. Firstly allow plenty of time. Is she capable of putting clothes on? If yes the say we are getting dressed. Hand her each item individually. If she can chat and do fine. If she can't when she asks a question say I'll tell you when you have put your pants on. Or even simpler - pants first. Do this the whole way through allow short breaks in between if needed . Your aim is to gradually reduce the gap between putting each item on and eventually to with draw and be able to leave her to it.

Option 2
If you are confident she is capable of completing several part instructions and doesn't need them breaking down, then try making it a game. Timer/reward etc lots of praise.

Screens on weekday mornings are not a good idea IMO!

@Blanketpolicy

What age? Assuming under 8.

Thats an interesting question, I'll answer as soon as you are dressed.

Call to come and flush toilet/put thing in bin etc everytime. If they don't come count to 3 and follow through with a known consequence. No need to shout. Takes time but it you are consistent it will work.

There is no point in asking them why, they don't really know the answer, they just need to develop the habits.

Absolutely agree with this.

My ds is 17 and is still like this now. He's autistic and some things he just doesn't seem to grasp despite the constant reminders.

When getting ready to go out I always say "that sounds like an interesting conversation - tell me in the car"

I also call him back to close all the drawers he leaves open, put things away when he's finished with them, to take things back to his room etc.

He's actually really well behaved and does it with absolutely no fuss or attitude.

He just doesn't actually ever remember to do it in the first place 🤷‍♀️

But shouting doesn't help. Some people just seem to find it hard to process and focus on instructions and routines and yelling isn't going to teach those skills.

I still live in hope it'll click one day with ds

If you repeat everything 5 times and shout, they won't bother listening the first 4 times. You need a reset. Let them know you will ask them twice, once in a normally, the second eye to eye, checking they've heard and understood, and then impose a previously agreed consequence if they don't respond.

Thank you everyone. Lots of good advice and I'm going to try it out this morning. Wish me luck!

This is, and always has been, ds. I thought it was just kids, until I had little miss organised. I now suspect ADD.
When I shout at ds, it's through my own frustration. Which I know I shouldn't do, as its doesn't actually work and sends him in to fight or flight mode.
I tend to do one instruction at a time. I check in regularly, because I know where his mind will be going.

I remind myself that I was exactly the same and developed tight routines to cope.
Ds has to do it all himself in the mornings now, as I go to work before he leaves. If he's late, his mates will go without him, so that has made him better. But I can see he runs out of time for breakfast sometimes, and god only knows what he looks like for school.

I really rate the book "how to talk so kids listen, and listen so kids can talk." Soke of the examples are a bit cheesy but the change of perspective is really helpful.

Similarly there is a great quote from Ross Greene that "kids do well if they can." For whatever reason they are finding it difficult - try some of the things above to make it easier.

One afternoon talk eith her and look at it as something you want to help her with and to work on together, that you dont want to be so shouty and want to do things differently? "Mornings are something we're both finding tricky - lets see if we can try it differently."

List of things to do in the morning. (Maybe make this together one afternoon with puctures?)
Clothes laid out nighy before was game changer here. And room tidy enough to see them!
Get dressed and ready before come downstairs/ before tv goes on.
Clear instructions - one at a time
Same routine each day.
Do it together.
Add fun.
Allow more time rather than racing. Or race if it works for her. We had "no tv until you're ready" which helped.

Good luck.

I play the points game.

If you get shoes on 20 points, if I have to put them on for you I get 20 points.

Etc

Usually the competitive spirit kicks in and he wants to win.

Try swapping the morning cartoons for a playlist if you like the sound and the cues in the morning. Morning screens are not great for their school lessons and in general shows make us want to sit and stay - they are designed to be that way!

My DS is also 7 and doesn’t wear school uniform and likes clothes so if left you his own devices could spend morning till lunchtime getting dressed. We changed the routine to clothes chosen the night before and placed at the end of the bed. He now gets dressed in a flash and is proud of it so I can praise instead of getting frustrated. (If he has a bedtime flurry of wanting to spend an hour choosing outfits, I tell him he can do as many as he wants straight after school or whatever so it doesn’t turn into a bedtime stall.)

When you ask her why and she says she doesn’t know… there are a few ways this can go. Maybe she’s honestly just young and doesn’t know. Perfectly valid. Maybe she knows but doesn’t want to upset you or get into more trouble because she knows ‘but this is more fun’ isn’t an acceptable response. Maybe she is a bit hurt that she’s trying to communicate with you about something she loves and it’s just being dismissed, and if she is quite a sensitive soul I think this is very possible. She doesn’t yet understand timing so you’re thinking it’s obvious the basics need doing every day and she’s thinking mum doesn’t want to talk to her. The good thing is you can get out of that conundrum and both be better for it. Help her to get dressed (quickly and quietly) for a few days so you have the minutes to talk after. You may or may not need to make it obvious at the end of the first week - ‘oh what a difference this has been! When you get dressed quickly, we get to talk about fun things and it’s all very pleasant!’

Know you can crack it and still have an off day for either or both of you. Apologise to each other when calm and agree to try again tomorrow. (That’s a pretty big life skill really and I wish at 44 that I didn’t need to keep learning it tbh!)

Fully understand not everyone wants that kind of parent/child relationship so ignore me if I misjudged. Good luck!

@Ohmnomnom

A typical example is:

DD, please go and get dressed.

Did you know, an elemental dragon has 5 powers that....

Get dressed first then we'll talk

Are you getting dressed?

DD, get dressed please or we're going to be late!

My stomach/head/toes/hair hurts I need medicine

Ok, get dressed and I'll check you over

Did you know, Sharon from school likes dragons as well?

AAAAAAARGGHH!

Don’t ask her, tell her. ‘DD, go and get your uniform on - it’s on the chair ready.” Then ignore her conversations. “go and get dressed” on repeat.

Make sure her clothes are already out.

When she goes to the toilet, stand nearby so that as she comes out of the bathroom you can remind her to flush and wash her hands. Every time.

If you have a child that can get a little obessed with a topic I find that setting a time to talk about the topic helps more than trying to avoid it completely. So when you are dressed/ready to leave/on the way to school you can tell me about the elemental dragon. This is, admittedly, less easy to achieve if you have a sibling who hates dragons. So the time to talk about dragons may be after school, when things are less fraught!

Otherwise channel your best cBeebies/CBBC presenter and jolly them out the door. Name each stage of getting ready after a dragon/current phase of interests. Have you achieved elemental dragon (getting dressed) status yet this morning, DD?

How to talk so kids will listen is really good and worth reading.

I used first do x, then y, at that age. More than two things to remember was too many. Now I’m up to three, then reminder if necessary, and then praise, and then the next three.

Also ‘races’ for things like putting shoes and coats on.

I have 2 girls and they don't listen either. The eldest is 11 and the international eye-rolling has now started.
They do eventually make it out of the door for school.
We have no screens after 6 and non at all in the morning.

We're trying to teach them independence and life skills. I personally hate tardiness, I also hate untidiness and poor hygiene.
They are slowly learning.
DP's little nephew on the other hand is the most well-behaved compliant child ever. She thinks I'm too soft on my girls.

@Ohmnomnom

A typical example is:

DD, please go and get dressed.

Did you know, an elemental dragon has 5 powers that....

Get dressed first then we'll talk

Are you getting dressed?

DD, get dressed please or we're going to be late!

My stomach/head/toes/hair hurts I need medicine

Ok, get dressed and I'll check you over

Did you know, Sharon from school likes dragons as well?

AAAAAAARGGHH!

One word after the instruction.

Dress.

Star on the chart when you are done for every instructions done immediately stars off when you don’t.

My son was like this:

So now it’s get dressed and when you’ve done it star on the chart (10 stars Is a dvd episode on tv and 25 is two episode plus 30 mins on kindle etc

He stares and starts playing with Lego.

One word - dress

He does it star on the chart - doesn’t do it

Star comes off.

My son has Sen and is very bright - he’s 8 and it works well. Explain how it works.