If you were raised religious but left the faith...

[GazillionthNameChange]

What's your engagement with the faith now, and how does your family feel about it?

My parents raised us in a specific faith and still actively adhere to that faith. Out of us adult siblings, two are no longer practising and one has been clear that she no longer believes at all. I am still an adherent of the faith and have recently been getting a little hurt that there is zero acknowledgement of the faith celebrations/occasions we were all brought up with. I feel like just because they have chosen to leave the faith doesn't mean they can't wish the half of the family who are still practising good wishes or thoughts on these occasions and acknowledge our shared memories and traditions. People completely outside the faith who I work with will do it but my own siblings don't, which I find puzzling. They do know when these occasions are but they either don't care at all, or actively avoid any mention of religion. If I ever say anything about doing Lent (for example) they will pass right over it and they will never proactively mention anything about it or ask how it's going, even though they know it's very important to half the family.

I get that religion is an emotive topic and I know my parents have been deeply saddened by the choices of these siblings. Even so we are all adults now and I feel like they could at least try and show respect for the traditions we were brought up with by acknowledging occasions at a bare minimum, even if it's just a 'happy X'. I'm trying to understand it from their perspective - I respect whatever choices they've made and never try to preach, but maybe there's something I'm missing here? To me it feels like a constant elephant in the room and adds tension to otherwise fairly happy/routine family chats and interactions.

I find people who pray for me offensive.

I’ve asked that I not be prayed for and for someone to continue to do that when I’ve asked that it not be done I find really upsetting.

Can you go out for coffee with the sibling you are closest to and ask them?

• How they are?

-Can they explain the process of leaving xxx was it sudden or gradual? -How do they feel towards it now?

Make a firm commitment in yourself to listen to what they have to say and not challenge or contradict their experience. That might be hard, especially if your perspectives differ.

I am not religious at all now, when it comes to family I don't acknowledge any religion at all with family as it just opens the door to nagging about the fact I've left or minimising why I have and creates tension. I'm fine to say to friends happy x etc to be polite and they just take it as it is.

achillespoirot I do too.

For what it's worth OP, I really like that you are asking these questions!

Having a genuine curiosity is the way forward with your siblings if you want to understand their pov.

Do you have any difficult personal conversations with your siblings, OP? I know it can be hard to actually talk to your family members (I speak from experience), but maybe it is worth trying to talk about their feelings about your upbringing in general, religion in particular?

Only if you are genuinely interested in listening though. If your goal is to get some kind of gesture (saying 'Happy Easter') out of them, it is probably not worth the effort, because they will instinctively sense that, and rightfully be resentful.

I think such conversations, can bring siblings closer and turn them into friends, but only if everyone is genuinely listening and caring.

@GazillionthNameChange I may be being optimistic but it's my belief that if you truly open yourself up to listening then others around you will feel able to share. But it'll take some time.

There are online resources to help with this and it takes practise - it's about recognising your own bias in the situation, suspending it and judgement to be really respectful of what they are saying. Put yourself in their shoes and really try to view what they are saying from their point of view. I am involved in inter-faith and cross cultural work internationally and this has been a successful approach despite me having my own faith.

It's more difficult with family but definitely possible, my family are some religious/some not. I think this upbringing helps me with the work I do now.

I think it's likely they want to avoid your judgement and that's why they are avoiding the conversations about it,

I had a strict Catholic upbringing and now non believer. I have close friends and siblings who are very religious. We don’t really talk about it as they know my views on the Catholic Church and they are for the most part negative. So I don’t acknowledge my nieces/ nephews holy communions with cards and money etc but am still very close to my sisters. I think we just both respect the other’s views.

On a practical point, I'm start from a position of curiosity.

I might ask say something like: how do you feel about coming to religious celebration meals now you've moved on from the faith? Is it weird for you? How can we make these occasions more comfortable for you? I would say we love seeing you let's make sure we get together outside these occasions too.

Maybe a arrange a special family gathering that has nothing to do with a religious observance.

How does that feel to you OP? You do seem curious about their position.

I think that if your relatives are still taking part in family celebrations and remaining part of the family in that way, you really can't ask for more than that. Freedom of religion should also mean freedom from religion. Everyone has the right not to have religion in their lives.

I left my childhood faith, my parents are dead but my sister still practises. I would certainly say Happy whatever to her especially if I was attending a celebration meal which was specific to that occasion, not to do so would be bad manners.
If I couldn't manage a simple salutation then I wouldn't be attending the meal which was put on solely to celebrate the religious occasion as that would be totally hypocritical.
It's a totally different situation to not making a special effort to give the salutation for something you don't agree with or for a faith that has hurt you. Then you wouldn't want any part in the celebrations surely.

I wouldn’t go to a meal that was solely for the religious occasion.

Thank you everyone for your input, it's a really interesting discussion. I do not ever offer to pray for them or anything like that as I know it could be offensive or unwanted.

@purrbox I try and show care and interest in who they are and we get on well but sometimes I feel like I don't really know them at a deeper level, and it is mostly because we avoid conversations about religion and values. Perhaps they are trying to be considerate because they know their views may upset or offend me in some way. I would like to be considerate of their views and am not just looking for a tokenistic acknowledgement.

@coffeeiwish those are good points about starting the discussion at a practical level. Part of the problem is that I really have no idea about how they feel about it. My one sister apparently told my mum she has an intellectual problem with the faith, the other I could only guess at - my guess is that she is lapsed but maybe not actively hostile towards it, but feels some guilt or shame because she knows that my parents are sad she's chosen differently. We do get together regularly as a family outside of religious events and have good conversations, but I feel this issue is preventing us from understanding each other better. Maybe it is too painful though and is better avoided? I don't know, but I'd like to at least try.

@AchillesPoirot

I find people who pray for me offensive.

I’ve asked that I not be prayed for and for someone to continue to do that when I’ve asked that it not be done I find really upsetting.

I'm sorry for what you've been through and your point here really resonated with me.

Even as a religious person when someone insists on praying for you it can be downright creepy, depending on who's saying and the context.

I'm thinking why I avoid discussing religion with my brother. He's been devout since he was 15 and is now in his 60s but we literally have had one conversation about religion in that time.

I think fundamentally im avoiding feeling things about my brother I don't want to feel. I like him, respect and admire him as well as loving him as my brother. But yes I'm a bit afraid of his judgement, and also I don't want to hear that he believes things I no longer do.

I was brought up Catholic. I have 3 siblings and was the only one who went to church as an adult. I lost my faith working as a nurse at the start of Covid, I couldn’t reconcile what was happening with the God I had believed in and trusted. Then DH died last year and I received no support or even acknowledgement from the priest, and that compounded it. I miss having a faith.
My DC were baptised and go to Catholic school, so they still attend Mass and I have once been with DC2’s class as they needed some parents to walk to the church with them. We celebrated Christmas and will celebrate Easter in a secular way with minimal mention of Jesus. In the next 6 months I will have to decide about DC2’s First Holy Communion. It was important to me that DC1 did it and we attended church regularly at the time and I believed it was important for her. Now I don’t really but I want her to have the same opportunity as DC1.
I don’t think my family are bothered. My dad is the only practicing Catholic (my mum isn’t Catholic but came to church with us when we were children and was quite involved in the church), and is probably used to it by now as his other children stopped going as soon as they could. No one seems to have an issue, or maybe they haven’t really noticed.

@GazillionthNameChange I think @PurrBox was quite right that understanding each other on this issue can bring you closer together and strengthen your relationship.

Just ask the question with complete empathy and try not to judge the answers. Once they trust there will be no judgement from you then future conversations will be deeper and more fruitful. Just let them know you care about how the feel on the subject.

Also. From experience. They might say something you find offensive. My strategy for this is to try not react in the moment, just to say neutrally that I don't agree but thank you for sharing it. Come away and try to see why they have that view or belief. Takes loads of practise and I still struggle sometimes

This stuff gets complicated. Good luck!

Also another practical tip for deeper conversations -

Always be doing something where you're not directly looking at each other. On a walk is a great time or washing up after Easter Sunday roast dinner, or in the car.

"Thank you for coming, I was worrying all this would be weird for you. I'm sorry I hadn't thought to ask you earlier how you were feeling about it"

Gahh sorry passion for communication!! Hope it goes well
:)

Hi again OP, it sounds like you would really like a genuine friendship and understanding with your siblings. If you truly focus on that, and think about it deeply, your heart may help you to find the way to have some interesting and more meaningful conversations.

In my experience, religion can make some people come across as shallow in their thinking. In your opening post, you sounded like you just want your siblings to make token gestures ("*try and show respect for the traditions we were brought up with by acknowledging occasions at a bare minimum, even if it's just a 'happy X'."), but I think that is not what you really want!
If you can come to understand that your siblings may have no respect for your religious traditions, may just barely tolerate them, then perhaps you have the potential to get closer to them and to understand their point of view.

Good luck- I think being close to siblings is an incredibly wonderful thing when it happens.

I have been much closer to my brother since my dh died as he set himself to ring me every week and has done so without fail, being kind and open. Seeing his values in action has done more for me than discussing theology tbh.

I think it's perfectly possible to discuss values without bringing religion into it. Everyone has values, whether they have faith or not. And in a lot of cases those values will be very similar.

Religion has a cultural value which some can separate out from their faith or lack of. I know a number of non practicing Catholics and Jews who all still participate in food based events like Easter and Passover as its important to them from a cultural family background point, but not from a religious one.
Can you offer that to your relative?

They are happy to eat celebratory meals with us though on these occasions and receive gifts but I find the silence around the reason for the occasion a little bit hurtful.

I think you’re just expecting too much? In a typical culturally Christian family who don’t attend church regularly, you’d ‘celebrate’ Shrove Tuesday with pancakes, maybe give something up for Lent with no much fanfare or discussion, get together at Easter and Christmas, and so on. But you wouldn’t really get into Palm Sunday celebrations, Ash Wednesday, more obscure rhythms of the religious year.

We do get together regularly as a family outside of religious events and have good conversations, but I feel this issue is preventing us from understanding each other better.

In our family we were all raised regular churchgoing CofE, involved in community life etc. As adults one of my siblings one is a committed Christian involved in prayer groups and regular Sunday worship and community. I’m a semi-regular/lapsed attendee with a deep love for God but a bit of ambivalence towards whether I fit in at church, and who sometimes thinks about exploring other religions. My other sibling is a committed atheist. It’s a big part of my parent’s life. We all get along happily and harmoniously without much discussion of religion in a deep sense. It will get mentioned or not as it comes up in conversation - who’s been doing what or whatever. The atheist won’t bring it up because it’s irrelevant to them but will join in celebration day means etc. I’d never enquire how Lent was going for anyone.

I think you’re sensing a lack of something that’s not really related to religion. I know my siblings well, and their values, despite their faith or lack thereof. It’s not the main or only thing about them.

Raised a Catholic in Ireland. Did my communion and confirmation without questioning it. Had faith till my early 20s. An atheist now and ticked no religion on the census on Sunday.
My parents don't seem too bothered by my lack of faith. My mother said she was relieved I didn't marry in a church as she doesn't like seeing people going through the motions without meaning it.

I'm not entirely sure what you want from them, to be honest.

H and I were both brought up as weekly churchgoers and church musicians and it's still part of our lives (though H has "an intellectual problem" with the faith, ie he doesn't believe in the existence of the divine).

H's older brother left the church as a teen, and avoided family Christmases as a young adult because they were very church-based. He still doesn't do family Christmas but he's a bit of a solitary soul anyway. Their sister lives near to MiL and joins for Christmas dinner and for the secular bits of Easter. She and her family will wish us Merry Christmas and talk about carol services and so forth, but we're all well aware that otherwise church doesn't feature in their lives. MiL will talk to any of her four children about things that are happening in her church, without expecting a particular type of response.

My family includes two atheists and a lay Reader, and we're entirely happy to join for Christmas and do together the bits we still all do (and until grandad got dementia everyone got an easter egg regardless). So far as I can tell no-one minds when we talk about the things we did when we were children - whether that's going to Midnight or having beef on Boxing Day (one sis is a vegetarian too).

I don't expect R to ask me whether I'm following Tim Wright's journey through Luke this year.