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Original poster

Working while on A/L payment...

43 replies

Fordian · 28/03/2022 16:59

Help me, here. Am I being unreasonable?

I get paid £20 an hour (HCP). This year we have to take our AL or we lose it. I assume it'd be paid out?

Like all, we're in deep strife sickness-wise so there's loads of OT on offer, but if it 'goes live' within 24-48 hours of the shift, or it's difficult to fill, it goes 'golden' which attracts a further £15ph to incentive us. We work shifts so there are often people on their days off willing to pick up such overtime.

I'm on A/L and a golden shift has come up. I've offered to do it if they give me my day's A/L back, even 'disguising' it as TOIL if need be.

They've refused saying the golden-ness of it is the compensation. But, to my mind I'll be effectively earning £15ph for it, as I'm, being as I'm on A/L, already being paid £20ph for sitting on my arse.

If I offered on a non-work day, I get that they wouldn't give me an alternative day off as it is overtime; but this is A/L and I think I should get it back as a day's A/L plus £35 an hour.

What do you think?

OP posts:
balalake · 28/03/2022 17:08

Leave should be taken. Once you break that, it will be a slippery slope I fear.

Quidity · 28/03/2022 17:52

I sometimes work bank shifts when I'm on A/L but would not expect to get the A/L day back - in essence you are already being paid twice anyway: paid for the A/L and paid for the bank/OT shift

MagentaRocks · 28/03/2022 17:53

Of course you shouldn’t get the leave back.

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Employment advice
Iwouldlikesomecake · 28/03/2022 17:56

So you want the bank shift AND the annual leave at another time AND the free time to do the bank shift?

You are already being paid double bubble if you do a bank on an annual leave day.

Annual leave £ (normal salary pay)
Bank pay
Golden pay

Why do you think you should get the extra day off in lieu? Genuinely interested to see how you think that works.

ChicCroissant · 28/03/2022 18:14

I would assume AL would be paid if you've been told that you'll lose it if you don't take it.

It was your choice to put yourself forward for the shift rather than take the day as AL so no, I wouldn't expect your employer to move your AL to the next AL year, which is I presume what you'd like to do?

ChicCroissant · 28/03/2022 18:15

Sorry, wouldn't assume it would be paid - if you don't take the day now, you'll just lose it.

dammit88 · 28/03/2022 18:24

Surely you are getting annual leave pay plus normal rate plus the golden incentive as iwouldlikesomecake says?

hazelnutlatte · 28/03/2022 18:40

If your normal rate is £20 ph and this shift offers an extra £15 then surely you will get £35 per hour for this shift. Plus you will be paid your normal salary on top as you are on leave.
I think you are misunderstanding if you think you are only going to be paid £15 per hour for this extra shift

OnceAgainWithFeeling · 28/03/2022 18:48

@ChicCroissant

I would assume AL would be paid if you've been told that you'll lose it if you don't take it.

It was your choice to put yourself forward for the shift rather than take the day as AL so no, I wouldn't expect your employer to move your AL to the next AL year, which is I presume what you'd like to do?

If it’s NHS the only reason leave can be paid is if you leave or if they run a sell back scheme.
Towelseverywhere · 28/03/2022 18:57

Yes if you give up annual leave to work then of course you should get the annual leave day back. I can’t understand why people are saying not

Original poster
Fordian · 28/03/2022 19:06

@dammit88

Surely you are getting annual leave pay plus normal rate plus the golden incentive as iwouldlikesomecake says?
No, I won't get my A/L pay as I'm effectively rescinding that day. If I take the shift (it's not bank, I'm not on the bank, none of us are), I'm not getting paid as per an A/L day; I'm getting paid for an 'at work' day (plus the golden rate).

Imagine your contract says: Here's £20ph for you to work 46 weeks a year (PT), and here's £20ph to be on leave for 6 weeks a year.

One is clearly harder to do than the other. So, ignoring the 'golden' aspect, I'm effectively changing a 'sit on my arse at home' day for a 'run around like a blue arsed fly' day, aren't I? Same basic pay.

OP posts:
Original poster
Fordian · 28/03/2022 19:07

@Towelseverywhere

Yes if you give up annual leave to work then of course you should get the annual leave day back. I can’t understand why people are saying not

Thank you!

OP posts:
Original poster
Fordian · 28/03/2022 19:14

@balalake

Leave should be taken. Once you break that, it will be a slippery slope I fear.

That ship has long sailed, sadly.

I work with many overseas trained fellow HCPs who will literally come off an agency night shift and straight into a NHS day shift. They'll work all and any hours, including calling in sick for a NHS shift if there's a better offer from an agency.

Management have long since caring as long as there's a bum on that seat. And targets are met.

OP posts:
FruitToast · 28/03/2022 19:17

I think you should have the day back but they won't give it. I don't understand this year's 'not allowed to carry days over' stance. Surely they would have been better to have let us carry leave over? Every person working for the NHS (different trusts) I know has been told they absolutely won't let you have the leave to take over (unless special circumstances) and won't pay you, so I'm not surprised they are saying you can't have the leave back. I've just taken Friday, today and tomorrow and left the department in the s**t because otherwise I'd have lost the 3 days I wanted to carry over.

karmakameleon · 28/03/2022 19:21

But surely if you weren’t on annual leave, you’d be working anyway and therefore not able to take the extra shift Confused

Heartbrokenrn · 28/03/2022 19:25

My trust are allowing a week to be carried over or sold, so definitely not countrywide

Daisy95 · 28/03/2022 19:28

In my trust we can work overtime whilst off on annual? In fact most of us do it unless were actually away as we're so short staffed management literally beg us. So surely you'd get your weeks pay and then overtime on top?

heymammy · 28/03/2022 19:28

@karmakameleon

But surely if you weren’t on annual leave, you’d be working anyway and therefore not able to take the extra shift Confused
I was just about to say this...the only reason you're free to take the golden shift is because you are on a/l. If you were working then you couldn't do the golden shift.

So you should get paid your holiday pay for the day plus the golden £35?

kitcat15 · 28/03/2022 19:31

Are you sure you can't carry it forward? I'm NHS community ....since covid we are now able to carry forward 10 days...its not been massively publicised on the intranet...but everyone I know who had applied had been successful ( ( imI'carrying 8 days forward myself)

RagzRebooted · 28/03/2022 19:32

@FruitToast

I think you should have the day back but they won't give it. I don't understand this year's 'not allowed to carry days over' stance. Surely they would have been better to have let us carry leave over? Every person working for the NHS (different trusts) I know has been told they absolutely won't let you have the leave to take over (unless special circumstances) and won't pay you, so I'm not surprised they are saying you can't have the leave back. I've just taken Friday, today and tomorrow and left the department in the s**t because otherwise I'd have lost the 3 days I wanted to carry over.
We were allowed to carry over up to a week and be paid the rest. But they only decided that a month ago, beforehand it was absolutely must take it. But then everyone kept getting covid and we'd have had to close if they made us all take leave!
SmudgeRolls · 28/03/2022 19:33

Ofcourse you wouldnt get the AL back Grin🙈

RagzRebooted · 28/03/2022 19:34

Oh and OP should be paid for the overtime on top of annual leave. I don't understand why that would not happen automatically, unless payroll makes it impossible. My colleague is working tomorrow evening after being on A/L 8 hours during the day.

aperol10 · 28/03/2022 19:34

Why are people not understanding this. You're not getting paid 'double'. You're effectively wasting a day of AL to work. You're not getting paid in cash for that AL day - the day off is the payment.

I think you should be able to reclaim another day of AL. In the corporate world, that's quite standard, but I wonder if things might be less flexible within the NHS. I feel you - it's a pretty rigid policy.

Iwouldlikesomecake · 28/03/2022 19:39

Ok so all they are asking you to do is work a NORMAL shift but give you an extra £15.

Fuck that.

What happens in most places is that you can take leave and work the day on the bank- why on earth they would think anyone would work their normal shift instead of taking their leave is beyond me. But if you are a mug enough to do it…

Why are none of you on the bank? How does anyone work extra shifts? Or does nobody?

Iwouldlikesomecake · 28/03/2022 19:40

Also it’s trust dependent if they let you carry leave over or not.

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