I still can't speak the language!

[Thejoyfulstar]

Three and a half years ago, my husband and I moved abroad for work, taking our 2 children whp were aged 1 and 3 at the time. We are both from the UK and didn't speak the local language at all. We work for the same company where everyone speaks English but were both very excited to learn the language.

As we both work full time and have no family support at all, we started having online lessons when the kids were in bed. We were normally so exhausted from working all day and dealing with the kids, we both struggled to concentrate or complete our homework to any meaningful standard. We tried Saturday mornings but it was too intense with the kids running around. Then our teacher did something which we both felt was inappropriate and we didn't want to use him anymore.

In the meantime we would do bits of study on our own from textbooks and apps, and try to chat to locals in coffee shops or the park etc. We were making ok progress considering, but a year into our journey, covid hit.

We were working online while managing our kids at home which, which was incredibly stressful so online lessons took a backseat. We weren't allowed to go out so couldn't chat to locals.

When life reopened, we tried to resume chatting to locals but it was much more difficult with masks. The business of working and having the kids took over and the lessons took a back burner again. We resumed online lessons with a different teacher who is great, but the tiredness issue in the evenings after work is the same.

Then I got pregnant and had another baby so lessons have taken a backseat again. Every expat I know who can speak the language has either married a local or moved here when single and childless and had the time and energy to devote to learning the language.

Work is an English speaking environment, my husband doesn't speak the language, and the locals we do get to speak to still wear masks everywhere which adds another level of difficulty. We are always too tired or busy just dealing with life to make a serious attempt at learning the language.

When I am relaxed and speaking to a patient and understanding local who speaks slowly, I can chat away and get my point across. However I am completely out of my depth in most situations where I'm required to use the language for anything other than pleasant small talk. Accessing local services without a translator is almost impossible.

We love this country, have a really brilliant life here and both really want to learn the language. Aside from watching TV and listening to the radio in the language etc we don't know what else we can currently do. Our family commitments and lack of extra energy, as well as total lack immersion, is holding us back. I'm now feeling totally overwhelmed and am starting to realise its never going to happen because I'm always too busy or tired.

My baby is 6 weeks old and sometimes I can barely string a sentence together in English, let alone the local language. A workman came to fix something yesterday and commented how poor my language is for how long I've been here. He is completely right but it was depressing!

Any ideas? I don't want to say the language but it's one of the romantic European ones.

@dipdye

Oohhh I hear you op, I'm in exactly the same boat. Well, almost, I've lived where I live for almost 14 years and I am still not fluent!

But I can get by, have a decent conversation and understand 99% of what is being said.

My tips would be to:

• Be totally immersed i.e. through work, socializing etc. Preferably with someone who cannot 'switch' to English. Kids are a great way to achieve this.
• Watch TV shows with subtitles in Italian, as well as being spoken in Italian.
• Don't bother with radio/music\/podcasts - you need to see people speaking.

Learning one will never take you to the same level as acquiring one. You use completely different cognitive skills.

^

This is important. You will never speak the language the same as someone who has learnt it from birth/early childhood. The wires are different. But you can def get to a great functional level which will improve you life immeasurably!

Agree with a lot of this, but not the bit about radio/podcasts. They are a great way of getting your ear in. Listen to the news - you will already know most of what they are talking about (Ukraine etc), making it easier to follow and pick up the Italian words.

Make yourself do all your little everyday tasks in Italian, instead of using Google translate.

I know how you feel, I've studied four languages at various points, and it's always difficult to crack it.

For instance, I lived in Spain for three years. For my first month there (single and childless) I did Spanish classes everyday and found bars I liked which did language exchanges. Although my level was technically quite low, I got reasonably confident communicating with people. But as soon as I got a full-time job, my communication skills in the language went backwards, as it was an English-speaking job and I wasn't practising Spanish every day. I knew a reasonable amount, maybe about AS-Level knowledge, but accessing services was always stressful as I didn't live in an area with many English speakers.

Since returning to the UK I've been able to study a bit and pass an Instituto Cervantes exam, but that's because I didn't have a job. I really want to improve and pass the exam in the next level up, but now I have a job as well as a child, I don't know how to fit it all in, I'm exhausted at the moment!

So my only advice is to just set achievable goals, don't beat yourself up about not being fluent.

Watch something on netflix in english so you know what was said. Then go back qnd watch it again in italian. Take it in 5 minute chunks

I think that it's worth looking into podcasts. You might find one that interests you. The Coffee Break Series, for example. Short segments aimed at adult language learners. Radio is good too. It's more difficult, but you can often understand most of news bulletins and build it up from there.

I agree with the person who said exposure to the language is really important. Lots of listening.

Good luck, op. It's a challenge for sure, but it will be worth while.

Another reason why it is so important to learn the local language is that if you intend staying in the country and only hang around with expats you will soon find that they will all leave and you will be continually saying goodbye and losing friendships. That is very difficult to deal with after a while.If you learn the language you will make good friends with those around you which also makes life easier and more enriched in your chosen country .

You need to find some trashy telly that takes no effort at all to follow (I’m thinking the Italian version of Neighbours!) that you can collapse / feed the baby in front of.

I’m going to disagree that it requires huge effort to learn a language. I think it requires EITHER huge effort (textbooks, grammars, formal lessons) OR the opportunity to absorb it. The first is the way you must learn abroad and it’s bloody difficult. Memories of GCSEs are probably making you think that’s how you learn, but since you’re living in-county I think you can probably engineer ways to be around the language without busting out the textbooks when you’re tired in the evening. Join clubs and activities. Watch tv with the subtitles on. Buy hobby magazines (loads of pictures, repetition of vocab, predictable). You don’t need great grammar as you just want to be able to participate in everyday life - think about all the non-native English speakers you’ve met in your life. I bet many had not learnt formally to a high level and yet were perfectly able to communicate.

You haven’t had many opportunities with Covid so don’t beat yourself up. But I reckon you can make them now if you’re prepared to put yourself out there and be a bit uncomfortable. Listening in at parties, talking in pigeon Italian, etc., at first.

@schnubbins

Another reason why it is so important to learn the local language is that if you intend staying in the country and only hang around with expats you will soon find that they will all leave and you will be continually saying goodbye and losing friendships. That is very difficult to deal with after a while.If you learn the language you will make good friends with those around you which also makes life easier and more enriched in your chosen country .

This is so true. I met so many wonderful 'expats' abroad, and they often seemed quite settled (had a local boyfriend, for example). But before you know it, they've broken up with their boyfriend and moved away. It does get depressing.

One great way I found to practise the local language and meet local people was to use Tinder, but as OP is married, I guess that's not appropriate in this case... Maybe there are other apps that could help?

I lived in Germany in a region with a very strong dialect, and it took me a while before I could understand what the locals were saying to me. I found it easier to concentrate on one subject at a time. So, I'd watch loads of cookery shows and then at least I'd be able to talk about food. Then watch a lot of weather forecasts. Then watch some soaps, etc etc. Actually, soap operas are really good for picking up the language that people use in real life.

I'd still have trouble sometimes if a stranger said something to me at the bus stop, but things like parents' evenings and visiting the hospital were much easier.

Try little Pim with the kids and baby. Also, Duolingo. Do you have Disney+? Lots of content with the option to watch in Italian. Just a couple of suggestions. Maybe an Italian au pair or lodger would help you speak at home?

btw, is it common to speak English at work in Italy? Would love to work in Italy!

Agree with what others have said - you really do have to practice practice practice and put a lot of commitment into it. We live in a Spanish speaking country, have lived here for 18 months. We are both having lessons and revising, but it is so so hard for it to cement itself. I can get by in restaurants, shops, can have very basic conversations with others about our dog and my son, but I find it really hard to listen to what someone is saying and pick out what is being said, especially if I don't know the context. Because we live in an affluent area with lots of English speakers, I often find that as soon as I speak Spanish and they pick up that I'm not a natural Spanish speaker they start talking to me in English. Which is very helpful but also really frustrating as I really want to try speaking more Spanish! My son goes to a British school but lots of his classmates are either local or their families come from other Latin American countries so they speak a lot of Spanish - he is picking it up far quicker than we are because he hears it in the playground and his best friends speak it - and his Spanish accent is incredible! Whereas as soon as we are in a coffee shop they automatically ask us 'milk and sugar?' instead of leche / azucar. So not being immersed in it is probably the biggest obstacle to really learning it. Keep at it though - we've resigned ourselves to never being fluent but are continuing our lessons and doing our best so that at least we can say we are trying!

@isthisit83

btw, is it common to speak English at work in Italy? Would love to work in Italy!

DH and I lived there for a bit, and we both worked in English because we were with international (though not British) organisations. It will depend massively where in Italy you are, though. Milan and Rome are probably the best bets.

Ask people to correct you. One reason that children learn languages faster is that people correct their mistakes, whereas they will be worried that an adult will find being corrected rude, unless you specifically ask them to do so.

It's so hard. I live where are three official languages - I'm going to classes for all three. But also English is everywhere here so whenever locals hear my dreadful accents, they just speak to me in English. It's frustrating.

However, keep at it. Slow and steady. It will come over time, perhaps slower than you'd like but you will get better and better at it.

Italian is tricky anyway so it sounds like you're doing a good job of being persistent and positive.

@Spannwr1971

My wife and I are bilingual Italian and English speakers. We teach online if you're interested, but also, we are part of a network of bilingual kids activity groups, and language learning groups. We're based in Puglia. Be patient, many British immigrants can't speak Italian. Its not like you can just download it into your brain! It takes years. I completely understand your frustration, but it's a small price to pay for all that Italy gives. I'm a proud Yorkshire man, and I'd gladly never set foot in the UK again!

Where do you teach online? I'm currently trying to learn as we have family in Italy but finding it so tough (also off to Puglia in June!)

Netflix have some good foreign language shows. I would watch an episode with subtitles and then watch the same episode a few times without just listening and repeating phrases. That’s quite easy and enjoyable if you like the show.

My speaking is better than my comprehension too. I think actually that probably means we're quite good at picking up language. I sort of feel it's like building blocks in my head that I can use to get across what I mean. I also think it probably means you know more than you think you do.

Working in German was my absolute best thing I ever did. That was amazing, because I started out panicked like I'm never going to be able to do this, and then it just seemed to work and I found myself explaining quite complicated concepts. Listening to other people talk about a specific subject is also really helpful because it means you can pick up vocabulary in that subject. So join a gardening club or Sports Club or cookery classes and try listening to vocab around that area by watching YouTube cooking tutorials or gardening programmes or live sports.

You've made me all inspired to try all over again!

Don't underestimate the impact of foggy post partum brain. Remember to have fun with it. It's not like learning a language at school. You are bringing adult life experiences and motivation to it. Ask questions, take risks, try out words.

Well
Can’t
you
at
Least
Tell us
What
language?

The Spanish are a fan of intercambios where people sit and chat together,’one hour in one language and then next onnenglosh. Everybody benefits

Similar situation here (different country, and a couple of years further on).

Sites like twitter / instagram / the local equivalent of mumsnet can be a great resource for authentic language - use the search functions to find threads on words/topics that interest you.

I also try to have an audiobook or podcast on while cleaning/cooking/commuting (much harder when there's a small kid around!)

I have lived in three countries, where initially I didn't speak the language. Learning the first one was HARD and took years of studying and speaking that language daily to finally get it. The second language was easier because it's closely related to the first one (French and Italian). With French, I think I also struggled because so many people spoke English where I was and would always speak English with me upon hearing my accent (Geneva, Switzerland). Italian has come much easier for me because nobody speaks English where I live, I've had no choice. I've never taken an Italian lesson in my life but I can read and speak the language fine.
Give it some time, you've been there in covid and with a newborn, it's been necessarily the easiest time to just go out and learn an entirely new language. Try with duolingo and listening to TV and radio in the local language.

Edit to my last post- its NOT been necessarily the easiest time to go out and learn the language.

@EIisheva

Well Can’t you at Least Tell us What language?

The Spanish are a fan of intercambios where people sit and chat together,’one hour in one language and then next onnenglosh. Everybody benefits

OP has, mid thread. It's Italian.

@BertieBotts it has inspired me too! And yes totally get the 'building blocks' concept. There is an old man who spends a lot of time chatting to the locals at our neighbourhood park. He speaks 4 languages but not English and he is great to chat to. Yesterday I met him and ended up telling him all about my recent breastfeeding saga (baby not gaining weight, low milk supply, hiring a lactation consultant and being put on a programme of pumping and regular feeding to increase my supply and how its now fine). Yet the day before, a waiter asked me if i could vacate the table within an hour and I had no idea what he said and had to ask him if he could tell me in English.

Will get replying to others after I sort the baby 👶