I still can't speak the language!

[Thejoyfulstar]

Three and a half years ago, my husband and I moved abroad for work, taking our 2 children whp were aged 1 and 3 at the time. We are both from the UK and didn't speak the local language at all. We work for the same company where everyone speaks English but were both very excited to learn the language.

As we both work full time and have no family support at all, we started having online lessons when the kids were in bed. We were normally so exhausted from working all day and dealing with the kids, we both struggled to concentrate or complete our homework to any meaningful standard. We tried Saturday mornings but it was too intense with the kids running around. Then our teacher did something which we both felt was inappropriate and we didn't want to use him anymore.

In the meantime we would do bits of study on our own from textbooks and apps, and try to chat to locals in coffee shops or the park etc. We were making ok progress considering, but a year into our journey, covid hit.

We were working online while managing our kids at home which, which was incredibly stressful so online lessons took a backseat. We weren't allowed to go out so couldn't chat to locals.

When life reopened, we tried to resume chatting to locals but it was much more difficult with masks. The business of working and having the kids took over and the lessons took a back burner again. We resumed online lessons with a different teacher who is great, but the tiredness issue in the evenings after work is the same.

Then I got pregnant and had another baby so lessons have taken a backseat again. Every expat I know who can speak the language has either married a local or moved here when single and childless and had the time and energy to devote to learning the language.

Work is an English speaking environment, my husband doesn't speak the language, and the locals we do get to speak to still wear masks everywhere which adds another level of difficulty. We are always too tired or busy just dealing with life to make a serious attempt at learning the language.

When I am relaxed and speaking to a patient and understanding local who speaks slowly, I can chat away and get my point across. However I am completely out of my depth in most situations where I'm required to use the language for anything other than pleasant small talk. Accessing local services without a translator is almost impossible.

We love this country, have a really brilliant life here and both really want to learn the language. Aside from watching TV and listening to the radio in the language etc we don't know what else we can currently do. Our family commitments and lack of extra energy, as well as total lack immersion, is holding us back. I'm now feeling totally overwhelmed and am starting to realise its never going to happen because I'm always too busy or tired.

My baby is 6 weeks old and sometimes I can barely string a sentence together in English, let alone the local language. A workman came to fix something yesterday and commented how poor my language is for how long I've been here. He is completely right but it was depressing!

Any ideas? I don't want to say the language but it's one of the romantic European ones.

We are always too tired or busy just dealing with life to make a serious attempt at learning the language.

This is what needs to change. You still can't speak the language because you have not made a proper attempt.

Have you looked at podcasts specifically for learning your language? There are so many to choose from and I'm finding them a really good way to pick up conversational language. Plus they don't feel like a lesson, which, when you're busy and tired, is important.

I don't know anything about learning languages, but what sticks out to me is that you seem to be living like expats who are there temporarily. I realise that there isn't much to be done about the English speaking workplace, but if you are staying, why are your children in international school? Do your children not speak the language either? If they can't speak the language of the country they are growing up in, that's nuts.

Some food for thought here. Thanks everyone.
I am coming out of the post partum fog and fir the first time since we moved here, I do actually have a bit of time on my hands on maternity leave. Maybe I can get our previous teacher to give me a few lessons a week when I'm at home. The I could join some mum groups. Some of this is so basic and I can't believe I never considered it before! Our lives have been a whirlwind since we arrived and this maybe the first bit of breathing space I've had and there's no reason why I can't maximise my time off work. I just needed a bit of direction. Thanks everyone

I've been here ten years this year and shamefully I am still at the same point. I think it's easy enough to get to here with some study and practice, but to get from this point to fluency takes real immersion, coming out of your comfort zone - watch local TV, go to local toddler groups, get a part time job where you only speak the local language, or do an intensive course 5 days per week, something like that. You can't get past basic level by living life 99% in English and only making a token effort.

Rather than trying to learn together, can you take it in turns? So one of you covers childcare for a couple of hours of formal learning a week while the other one does classes. Or for a fortnight immersion course. Then next year or whenever, you can swap round. And in the meantime, I agree with those saying to use maternity leave to go to baby groups etc where the language will be spoken. Are there church-run groups? Some might have a focus on integrating international families which would be good as they tend to be very patient and encouraging (and used to speaking slowly) without defaulting to English l the time. A combination of formal study and daily practice is the best.

@TimmyHos there are reasons why they go to the international school instead of local but the reasons are too outing. Local would have been ideal but wouldn't have worked considering our setup. Our kids have Italian lessons in school and most if the kids are actually locals so playtime etc are all in the local language. They also play with local kids in our neighbourhood park but no, they aren't fluent. This is something that worries me too though.

Yes Im in Iraly by the way PP

Italy!

[quote Thejoyfulstar]@AlexaShutUp yes I totally agree. That last bit of energy that I need to put into the language is literally my last bit of energy at the end of the day. I'm at total saturation point once my kids are in bed. I got an A in GCSE French 20 odd years ago and know that I had multiple lessons a week and painstakingly learned off the verb conjugations and vocabulary by heart. I know what it takes to even get to that standard (I'm probably similar level in the new language but with gaps) and I just don't have it. You're totally right in that there are no shortcuts and it's an issue of accepting my current situation. It's just frustrating.[/quote]
I am studying a language (online course) but I am also using an Amazon audible course by a guy called Paul Noble.

Honestly his courses and methods are brilliant. I listen to him any time I am in the car. I am doing his Japanese course.

He does a few language courses but if it is French you are after, here is the link.

www.audible.com.au/pd/Learn-French-with-Paul-Noble-Complete-Course-French-Made-Easy-with-Your-Personal-Language-Coach-Audiobook/B01HNFA2RU?source_code=M2MORSH051016002X&ipRedirectOverride=true&gclid=EAIaIQobChMItcCfvpzm9gIVEg4rCh3hDgiMEAQYASABEgLrn_D_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

Hi @Thejoyfulstar I’m in Switzerland. Been here a long time, also with kids in international school (like you for a variety of reasons that we are content with)

1. My husband barely speaks any German. His work environment is English. He can order a drink etc but no more than that. He has actually found learning it so stressful that he has been told by a psychologist he is to stop taking lessons
2. Don’t take any notice of random or known people commenting on your language skills. It’s none of their business. You can go to work, perform your job and pay your bills, that’s fine
3. Everyone has an opinion. Working full time and bringing you children is quite enough. There will be time to use the language

So I guess what I am saying is don’t stress.

OK everyone I'm feeling inspired to use this time to really put in the effort and come at it from all angles. If someone offered me a million quid to do it, I bet I could find the time and energy. I just need to stop making excuses and just do it!
Going through all of your replies again and making note of things I don't already do and am keeping some of the more sobering replies in mind as motivation too!
Thank you everybody. Tips and food for thought too!

Sounds like speaking Italian at home really is the way to go, the DC can teach you as much as you can them.

Glad you've found some new ideas to help.

@NrlySp thank you! I get why your husband found it stressful. Its really just boring old study and practise and can be intense! Plus German seems very difficult too!

OP, I used to live in Italy, and understand how it can feel to be isolated without being able to fully embed yourselves in the local life. It can be complicated by the fact that in many areas, they also have a dialect which is extremely localised! So you end up having to learn Italian, but also the local dialects, just to be able to make yourself understood.

There are some excellent ideas here, especially getting the kids to teach you…speaking Italian during mealtimes is helpful, and gradually extending the amount of time you speak it. Be ruthless with yourself. Watch Italian TV whilst doing the ironing, go out in the late afternoon/early evening for a ‘passeggiata‘, get ice cream, chat to people, get your confidence. If you can get to a local bar daily for coffee and a ‘cornetto’, you’ll become a regular, and can chat there too. The more confidence you build, the more it’ll spur you on to study and learn.

One thing I did find difficult though…it was quite rural where I lived, and it was very difficult to make friends, as I was told that friendships tend to be forged at school, and it can be a challenge for others to break through that mindset. It’s not impossible, though, just something that may apply where you are too, just don’t be put off!

My wife and I are bilingual Italian and English speakers. We teach online if you're interested, but also, we are part of a network of bilingual kids activity groups, and language learning groups. We're based in Puglia. Be patient, many British immigrants can't speak Italian. Its not like you can just download it into your brain! It takes years. I completely understand your frustration, but it's a small price to pay for all that Italy gives. I'm a proud Yorkshire man, and I'd gladly never set foot in the UK again!

Abroad, lots of foreign language speakers want to improve their conversational English, and conversation groups are crying out for native English speakers.

Can you join a weekly conversation group?

Its really hard to learn a language when you're not fully immersed in it. I moved abroad 15 years ago, to a country with a language I've been exposed to since I was born, and I'm still not fluent because I just don't have to use it enough. I've recently restarted lessons (online twice a week) to try and improve my grammar enough to give me confidence to talk and write.

Joining local baby groups should be a good help, and learning together as a family. I would suggest starting with family speaking only Italian at dinner time, try to watch half an hour of TV each day in Italian with subtitles (subtitles in Italian, not in English, if you can read enough - might work better with children's tv until you progress more) to aid understanding, and do bedtime stories as one story in English and one in Italian (even better if its the same story). Practice small talk when you go to the shop, cafe, etc.

Thank you everyone! Great to also hear from people who have been in my shoes.

I'm not at total beginner level but there are lots of gaps in my knowledge. My speaking is much, much better than my comprehension if you can believe it (I know it's normally the other way around). So I can explain myself in basic ways about most things, but when thenother person replies to me I dont know what they are saying without just picking out a few words and guessing!

I spent almost a week in hospital having my baby and hardly anyone spoke English. I shared a room with a lady who spoke no English at all and we ended up with a nice little friendship, chatting away in my broken Italian. I got by with what I had in the hospital and by the end of the stay I was speaking and understanding in a more speedy way. But its not enough at all. I knownwhat to do which is the most important thing.

Hi op. Please dont be too hard on yourself. Learning a language is along hard process and life quite often gets in the way. I found 2 things helped.

1. Appropriate level materials. Those can be really tricky to find so you might need some help from a professional.
2. Start with something that interests you. Start with what you know most about in your own language and learn the vocab that way.

Is it speaking and listening you need help with or reading and writing.

How we learn languages is less about practising speaking and far more about exposure to it. Time to watch kids TV (highly recommend Peppa Pig in Italian), rewatch films that you are already familiar with which have been dubbed and do lots of reading. Don't start with Italian literature but easy reading books that have been translated into English (when I first came over I read lots of Brit chick lit rubbish which had been translated - think Bridget Jones, and the Shopaholic series.

I moved here, to Italy in 1994. Didn't speak Italian. I worked in an Italian school, had Italian friends and ultimately an Italian boyfriend who became my husband.
I'd say it took a good 5+ years of that level of immersion before I became fluent and probably another 3-4 until I actually started thinking in Italian if I was in an Italian context.
DD is bilingual because she's been in a bilingual context since birth.

It's also worth bearing in mind the difference between acquiring a L2 and learning one. Learning one will never take you to the same level as acquiring one. You use completely different cognitive skills.

When I was living in Spain I would

Listen to the radio while I did the housework
In the early days I watched Peppa pig dubbed into Spanish ( lots of repetition)

Read the newspaper with Google translate in cafes

Had language exchanges

Tried to avoid chit chat in supermarket queues - I'm convinced it's the hardest situation to get right! So many cultural signals / idioms etc on top of the language. I found these conversations the hardest.

Did short lessons of grammar a couple of times a week.

Listened to podcasts that had scripts available

Watched the RTVE online where they had subtitle options but also an option where you could put the script down the side. It was easier to avoid reading it and I only used it when I needed it.

Oohhh I hear you op, I'm in exactly the same boat. Well, almost, I've lived where I live for almost 14 years and I am still not fluent!

But I can get by, have a decent conversation and understand 99% of what is being said.

My tips would be to:

• Be totally immersed i.e. through work, socializing etc. Preferably with someone who cannot 'switch' to English. Kids are a great way to achieve this.
• Watch TV shows with subtitles in Italian, as well as being spoken in Italian.
• Don't bother with radio/music\/podcasts - you need to see people speaking.

Learning one will never take you to the same level as acquiring one. You use completely different cognitive skills.

^

This is important. You will never speak the language the same as someone who has learnt it from birth/early childhood. The wires are different. But you can def get to a great functional level which will improve you life immeasurably!

Tried to avoid chit chat in supermarket queues

^

Yeah, chit chat is tough! It tends to be really off the cuff stuff too, and I'm like whhhaaaattttttt????

I swear a lot of people think I'm either really rude or just stupid.