Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Chat

Join the discussion and chat with other Mumsnetters about everyday life, relationships and parenting.

Original poster

Permanent exclusion

47 replies

DDDespair · 22/03/2022 21:28

Hello, I hope I am ok to post on this board. I've name changed for this.
My year 10 daughter has been excluded today for 4 days following an assault on another pupil. This is not her first exclusion. Her school record is littered with sanctions for lack of respect, defiance, truancy, lateness, and her sickness record is awful. She's missed 25% of this school year. She doesn't live with me and does not want me involved in her life. There are lots of issues that I won't go into here. She has to meet with the head and deputy head next week to discuss her future at the school. Can anyone offer any experience regarding what might happen? Will she be expelled? The assault is on the school cctv and she is very much in the wrong. I'm in a state of shock at the moment that my child could do something so violent and I'm hoping for some information because next week seems so far away and I want to be prepared.

OP posts:
Original poster
DDDespair · 23/03/2022 07:37

Gentle bump

OP posts:
Original poster
DDDespair · 23/03/2022 10:41

A shameless bump now Blush

OP posts:
coughup · 23/03/2022 10:48

Mainstream schools seem to be doing fewer permanent exclusions than in the past, at least in my area anyway. They may look at alternative education provision for her, eg off-site tutoring organised by the school via an outside provider.

Hope you and she are ok.

Original poster
DDDespair · 23/03/2022 11:17

Thank you for your reply. Is that a pupil referral unit?

OP posts:
LadyMacduff · 23/03/2022 11:27

They may also seek a managed move to another local school on a trial basis. This can work where the child can benefit from a fresh start in an environment where they don't have a reputation to live up to, though it's harder now in the days of social media.

Myusername2015 · 23/03/2022 11:32

As a teacher I would think it’s unlikely that a four day fixed term exclusion would result in a permanent exclusion. However that will very much depend on her attitude in the readmission meeting. I think they are likely to suggest that one more issue will lead to them asking the governors to consider permanent exclusion. A managed move is certainty on the table or alternative education. At my school we have an inclusion unit and we may suggest dropping the number of GCSE’s and spending the lost time in this unit. It sounds an absolute nightmare for you sending 💐

DaisyDeli · 23/03/2022 11:56

Is she in care OP? They are better protected from permanent exclusion than the general population of kids.

Bobbybobbins · 23/03/2022 12:10

Agree with PPs that they might suggest a final warning or a managed move to another school. Try to think about what would be the best option.

Original poster
DDDespair · 23/03/2022 12:18

She isn't in care, she lives with her dad. He condones her violence and says the other student deserved the attack. It was a sustained assault where the child was on the floor being kicked repeatedly. She has already had several fixed term exclusions and internal exclusions. School have done everything they can to support her and help her improve but she refuses to do whatever is suggested.

OP posts:
coughup · 23/03/2022 13:58

@DDDespair

Thank you for your reply. Is that a pupil referral unit?
In my experience, pupil referral unit places are becoming rarer too - it is harder for mainstream schools to exclude and have their responsibility for a student come to an end. So they outsource tutoring to other agencies while still keeping the student on their own role.

I'm not an expert, but seeing a lot of this in my local area last couple of years. Like someone said, fresh starts are harder to come by than they were in the past due to social media.

Foxyloxy1plus1 · 23/03/2022 14:22

A four day fixed term exclusion will be followed by a reintegration meeting, at which the expectation of her behaviour in future should be set out and the consequences of further breaches of school rules, including assault.

If she’s had a number of internal and fixed term exclusions, I imagine the school are getting towards the end of their options. Work should be provided for her- whether she does it is a different matter.

They may want to discuss the option of a managed move to another local school, which is a time bonded programme, with regular reviews, to see whether a fresh start elsewhere can improve things. Permanent exclusion would be the last resort, but this isn’t the first incident, so she’s risking it.

Mychitchatdays · 23/03/2022 14:23

Are the police involved? With that type of assault I'd expect the parents of the other child to demand it.

balalake · 23/03/2022 14:32

I think there is the possibility of an exclusion, which would probably mean a pupil referral unit, but could be another school. Are you able to look at other schools in advance, to be informed in case it is the case?

LethargeMarg · 23/03/2022 14:44

Do you have parental responsibility still op? If so I would think you can be raising your concerns about your child yourself with school. This type of behaviour suggest something is very wrong with your child and she is a safeguarding risk to other kids as well as likely to herself. I would be asking if Ed psych has been involved , Camhs etc as such violent behaviour suggests trauma/ anger . Is dads house safe and suitable if he us nor putting in boundaries or managing this behaviour effectively ? It might actually help if police are involved as they will make dad appreciate the seriousness and things like young offenders programmes can be very effective with kids who won't engage with other services

Original poster
DDDespair · 23/03/2022 15:05

Social services are involved but are doing next to nothing. Yes I have PR and am in regular contact with school and always have been. Dad is permissive of her behaviours and does not punish her in any way. That's why she wants to live there because she can do what she wants. There is no guidance or discipline or presentness from him. If he disciplines her he fears she will rebel against him and return home to me. At this point I would not have her home as I have two young dc to safeguard and ages attacked them and me before.
I hope that the other kid's parents have involved the police in the hope that it shocks Dd into realising her behaviour is not acceptable.
My hands are pretty much tied because she doesn't want me in her life, doesn't see me or have much contact at all.

OP posts:
Original poster
DDDespair · 29/03/2022 12:10

To update, she has had a final warning. That was yesterday and today she has been late, then truant within the school grounds and has been found vaping in the loo so it's not looking good. I think she wants to be expelled.

OP posts:
SoyMarina · 29/03/2022 12:16

How are things now OP?
What would you like to see happen?
A managed move to another, smaller school may be an option.

TizerorFizz · 29/03/2022 12:25

Children like this would be far better off in a special school where they get more support to manage behaviour.

She clearly doesn’t want to be in school and her future looks bleak. If the school can get her into a pru, I would take it. I think she’s also a safeguarding risk if she’s out of school. I think she’s lucky not to have a permanent exclusion right now and that the other parent is not going to the police regarding the assault.

Your best bet is to say your DD has needs that are not being addressed by mainstream school. She has a very bleak future if her needs are not relent seriously.

TizerorFizz · 29/03/2022 12:26

not taken seriously.

yellowsuninthesky · 29/03/2022 12:43

After your latest update OP I agree it's not looking good. Maybe a PRU will be good for her, some are good, some aren't. It will depend on your area.

As for the police, the parents probably did contact them. But the police will leave it to the school if they can.

She is being failed badly by her father.

Foxyloxy1plus1 · 29/03/2022 12:54

If she is permanently excluded after today, there aren’t many options. The exclusion will have to be ratified, but I imagine you aren’t going to appeal it. She will have to have offered some form of education, but it may not be what she wants or needs.

I feel for you OP.

DomesticatedZombie · 29/03/2022 12:59

What a heart breaking situation for all involved. Flowers

JustOneMoreNameChange · 29/03/2022 13:04

I think you can try to grasp this as an opportunity to get your DD into a better school placement. A PRU could be the right place to support her and get her back on a better track.

You can also involve the police and SS, ask for a MASH referral and try to get as many people helping you as possible.

ChocolateRiver · 29/03/2022 13:09

I think you’re probably looking at a managed move. This is what happens before a child is permanently excluded (expelled) unless they have done something very bad in which case they’ll be permanently excluded straightaway. Your school will arrange for your dd to attend another local school for a set period of time e.g 10 weeks. At the end of this time, if dd has behaved well there they will take her on roll permanently and this will become her school. iIf not the managed move will be deemed a failure and then she’ll likely end up in a pupil referral unit. The managed move can also end early if your dd is badly behaved in the new school. It sounds like her current school have taken about as much as they can.

TizerorFizz · 29/03/2022 13:18

@ChocolateRiver
This was pretty bad. I am amazed with the DDs record that it wasn’t permanent in the first place.

A managed move is not the right solution here. Look at what this DD has been doing. There is little evidence a managed move will work. It certainly doesn’t address her behavioural complexities with experienced staff. She is what we used to call “EBD” and it needs specialist provision to address it. Another school won’t. She should also be assessed by the educational psychologists.