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Original poster

Permanent exclusion

47 replies

DDDespair · 22/03/2022 21:28

Hello, I hope I am ok to post on this board. I've name changed for this.
My year 10 daughter has been excluded today for 4 days following an assault on another pupil. This is not her first exclusion. Her school record is littered with sanctions for lack of respect, defiance, truancy, lateness, and her sickness record is awful. She's missed 25% of this school year. She doesn't live with me and does not want me involved in her life. There are lots of issues that I won't go into here. She has to meet with the head and deputy head next week to discuss her future at the school. Can anyone offer any experience regarding what might happen? Will she be expelled? The assault is on the school cctv and she is very much in the wrong. I'm in a state of shock at the moment that my child could do something so violent and I'm hoping for some information because next week seems so far away and I want to be prepared.

OP posts:
Donkeyinamanger · 29/03/2022 13:19

Is she having any counselling? She sounds like she is in desperate need of help. It must be tough for her having a Dad that doesn't seem to parent her at all and Mum who she doesn't see. Where has the violence come from, was it something that happened at home while she was growing up?

Stomacharmeleon · 29/03/2022 17:14

With all due respect another school has to agree or it be in there best interest to take a child like your DD. A trade off. I rarely know them to work.

But I am a teacher (well was) and my eldest ended up in a PRU and it wasn't a disaster. I was devastated to begin with but it really helped him. They are not always lawless places with unqualified staff.

TizerorFizz · 29/03/2022 17:27

@Stomacharmeleon
The better ones have really well qualified staff. Better than school staff who obviously cannot spend enough time with DCs who have behavioural needs. A pru is often a better bet and they’ve got a far better staff:pupil ratio.

LaTangerina · 29/03/2022 17:32

Hi, just saw this post not sure if you've updated but will add my experience anyway!
My daughter was assaulted by another girl & it was caught on CCTV.
My daughter fought back after the girls punched her & ripped out her hair though, so didn't just lay there & take it (not sure if the other pupil fought back in your case?) Anyway in this case it was a surprise attack that the girl planned.
The girl was not expelled the school took a soft approach because she had issues.
We involved the police & she got a slap on the wrists.

Original poster
DDDespair · 30/03/2022 09:47

Thank you for all the replies. I'm still waiting for school to contact me and let me know what is happening. She's received more sanctions today already and I don't see how her place there is viable now.

To the poster who asked about violence at home, no she hasn't witnessed violence here but I don't know about at her dad's. She watches a lot of horror movies and plays violent games and has done since about age 10 with her dad.

OP posts:
Foxyloxy1plus1 · 30/03/2022 10:20

I think that a managed move might have been an option before, but less so if the exclusion becomes permanent. The receiving school has to agree and that might be in question now. It’s a sixteen week programme with regular reviews and at the end of it, the pupil stays if successful or returns to the original school, if not. That might not be possible in this situation.

TizerorFizz · 30/03/2022 10:45

@LaTangerina
It’s very difficult for schools, especially if children have SEN. It’s often a nerd that’s pushed around in a school with little expertise brought to bear. Years ago these DC would be in special schools for EBD children. Like it or not, they do have issues but they are largely unaddressed. We also have boarding schools for such DC to remove them from appalling parenting. This provision is hugely expensive but necessary in my view.

As the OP is still responsible, I would press for a psychological assessment and ensure a behaviour specialist is involved. This child does have unmet needs and SEN isn’t just about dyslexia.

TizerorFizz · 30/03/2022 10:46

Aaah! It’s often a “need” not nerd - obviously!

StPaulandTheBrokenBones · 30/03/2022 11:28

Hi OP,

My DS was permanently excluded for behaviour which was very similar to your daughter's. He was given a key worker and did lots of different vocational courses in our area as well as maths and English. He was not allowed in a PRU as his behaviour was too serious.

To be honest this was the making of him. He is now 17 years of age and has an apprenticeship (plastering), which he loves. He never has any issues at college and is doing really well. I am so proud of the lovely young man he has turned into. He has a girlfriend and he is paying for his share of a two week holiday in Mexico with her and her family next month.

Four months after being excluded he was diagnosed with ASD. I am not sure why but the diagnosis seemed to calm him right down, as if he knew why he felt so out of control and different from his friends.

I am not saying this will be easy OP but things can improve and get better with the right support. Getting kicked out of mainstream school was the best thing that could have happened to my son.

Xpologog · 30/03/2022 11:34

@DDDespair

To update, she has had a final warning. That was yesterday and today she has been late, then truant within the school grounds and has been found vaping in the loo so it's not looking good. I think she wants to be expelled.
It sounds like it. Sorry, I’m way out of touch with school procedures but every behaviour has a reason for it. Sounds like your daughter is screaming about things in her life and you’re in a very difficult position if she chose to live with her father. Can you press on the school the need for some sort of therapy, counselling ? Is there a local charity that might be able to help, Barnados, or the NSPCC ? Might be worth talking to them just to ask.
Original poster
DDDespair · 30/03/2022 14:16

I agree that she is screaming for help.She was having counselling at school but stopped going. She is under camhs but didn't attend her last appointment and she won't let me go with her. Her dad is useless and I feel powerless. The social worker is either unable or unwilling to help beyond talking to dad and holding meetings that have no effect. I'm not kept in the loop by anyone snd have to fight for any information. Dad and Dd are very good at talking the talk to professionals and making promises they can't keep. They blame me but I have other dc who are high achievers and happy and settled in their schools with no issues. I've got my faults and I've mainly been putting out fires since exH left and trying to minimise the damage his lifestyle and parenting causes.

OP posts:
TizerorFizz · 30/03/2022 17:04

So why is DH not resident parent? I might get that changed. He is and he needs to face up to his responsibilities.

Original poster
DDDespair · 30/03/2022 18:09

@TizerorFizz we have equal parental responsibility but he is resident parent. He's not interested in parenting her though because she will rebel against him.

OP posts:
TizerorFizz · 30/03/2022 18:12

So what does he plan to do when she’s out of school? Just forget about her?

Original poster
DDDespair · 30/03/2022 18:21

I think he believes it isn't as bad as it is and they won't expel her. He's one to bury his head in the sand and always expects someone else to sort out any problems. He is never at fault for anything either.

OP posts:
Greensleeves · 30/03/2022 18:31

Why des she live with her dad? Was it decided at the split, or has there been a move due to unmanageable behaviour at home?

Who is funding her vape habit?

Where is she in relation to puberty and hormones? Has her behaviour got suddenly worse in the last year or so, or has she always been this difficult?

Are there any known or suspected SEN or neurodivergence, and have the school been willing to engage beyond imposing discipline when she breaks rules? Is there any plan in place to support her, and de-escalate situations as they arise?

Original poster
DDDespair · 30/03/2022 18:58

She lives with her dad because she physically attacks me and her younger siblings. He has manipulated her into believing I'm a bad mum and she sees me as having rules and expectations for behaviour. He lets her do what she wants and quickly relents on any punishments he does put in place because he's all for an easy life and doesn't want her to hate him.

He funds her vape habit.

School have got her on a behaviour contract in an attempt to get her back to her normal behaviour. This behaviour started when she moved in with her dad and his now ex gf at the start of year 9 but no one is connecting the dots. She loved school in the first two years but has gone downhill in her attitude since living away from her home and siblings.

OP posts:
Greensleeves · 30/03/2022 19:03

Thank you for answering my questions, I'm sorry if it seemed like an interrogation. My heart goes out to you, it must be horrific to see your child being so badly let down by her other parent, but not be able to have her home because you're protecting younger children from violence Sad

If the school don't permanently exclude her this time, I would ask for a meeting to talk about how she can be supported - when she isn't acting up - to manage her feelings so that they don't escalate. School should have a plan in place, it should have been discussed with you - there is a lot they can do from arranging therapy for her to having a space where she can go when she needs to calm down.

I don't know what to say about her father, and the fact that he is clearly a lazy bastard who doesn't give a monkeys about ruining his daughter's life. Is his partner any better?

Easterbunnyiswindowshopping · 30/03/2022 19:06

Ime it has to get to the very worst before it gets better op. At 14 my ds chose the easy life at exh's. Alcohol, drugs, no school.... Excluded. Home school became no work and all play days.
A year later ds realised his behaviour was put of control and he needed a parent.
Within weeks he had taken back control of his life and moved ft with me. Going nc with his df....
Stay strong op...

TizerorFizz · 30/03/2022 19:51

What about seeing a psychiatrist? There are child specialist ones. Attacking people is a need and this needs a far more proactive approach than a room to calm down in. She’s not, at the moment, recognising the need to do this. Therefore I would go back to her mental health team and make enquiries about further appointments.

LaTangerina · 30/03/2022 23:08

@TizerorFizz

Aaah! It’s often a “need” not nerd - obviously!
Haha I was wondering what you meant 😂🙈 Yes it was a very difficult situation & the girl definitely wouldn't have the best homelife, no additional needs other than that though. They were both in the 6th form so the school was keen to brush it under the carpet as there wasn't long left for them. Also my daughter fought back after the initial attack which didn't help her case. We're hoping the police visit gave the girl a shock because she's not been near my daughter since.
TizerorFizz · 30/03/2022 23:34

@LaTangerina
I’ve got a new phone and it goes mad on autosuggestiions! It’s got a mind of it’s own.

Someone giving another DC a wide berth is probably a result. If they get through A levels then they never have to see each other again, hopefully.

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