Covid isolation showing difference between employed and self-employed...

[melonhead]

I'm sure so many people wouldn't be isolating/calling for people to isolate/taking time off if they weren't guaranteed to keep getting their salary.

It must be easier to say 'I must take time off' if you know it won't affect you financially and if your job is so secure you won't face any penalties at all.

I agree!

I have worked with 2 positive colleagues this week

Customers they served would have no idea!

That’s the risk you take when you’re self employed. You know your income isn’t guaranteed, but you reap the benefits too.

You can’t have your cake and eat it.

Absolutely agree. It's easy to demand restrictions that don't affect you

You're bang on.

Self-employed people can't afford to take all this time off when they're not actually unwell. Most of us would lose our businesses if we kept having to take 5-10 days off work because we tested positive.

It's very easy to call people selfish when you're getting a guaranteed salary to stay at home and "protect the vulnerable"

Yeah, obviously. People are generally keener for others to make sacrifices than they are to do it themselves.

I’m a nurse on a zero hours contract. No sick pay/ isolation pay and I’ve had to miss 96 days over the pandemic. But I absolutely couldn’t risk exposing vulnerable people to covid.

@melonhead

I'm sure so many people wouldn't be isolating/calling for people to isolate/taking time off if they weren't guaranteed to keep getting their salary.

It must be easier to say 'I must take time off' if you know it won't affect you financially and if your job is so secure you won't face any penalties at all.

If you choose to go self employed, then you need to consider that you need to be able to fund sickness, holidays, maternity/paternity. If you can or choose not them it's tough shit to be Frank. They have historically benefitted from being able to have lower wages, pay less tax and no, yet receive high dividends. Their choice.

And I don't believe that their choice should bear any reflection on whether they should isolate or not. They absolutely bloody should.

Likewise, I don't hear the same self employed that received grants for absolutely nothing, offering to return it all when they receive their dividends do you?

No sympathy whatsoever.

Erm I'm a childminder, self employed. I don't receive dividends (?) and not really sure what you mean about receiving grants for absolutely nothing.

On the flip, I won't isolate. Not only can I not afford to, I can't be dealing with the hassle from parents if I close. They are usually the reason I am ill anyway. Side point, I'm not testing so won't even know if I was positive.

Many employed people can't afford to take time off either. SSP isn't enough if you've got no savings. Some people are on 0 hour contracts and get nothing. It's not unique to the self employed.

Likewise, I don't hear the same self employed that received grants for absolutely nothing, offering to return it all when they receive their dividends do you?

You have an idea about self employed people that seems to have been designed by someone who has no idea.

I am self employed. No dividends. The only grants I had were SEISS, the same sort of deal as employers for for employees except it missed a month in the middle and ended earlier.

It allowed me to hang on in there until the economy opened up again and my work levels returned to something more near normal.

I am sick to the back teeth reading I'll informed twaddle like this.

@ChoiceMummy eh? Can you link you references, please

Jesus. I’m a self employed counsellor. If I don’t work I don’t have money.
I barely earn the tax threshold so I’m certainly not getting dividends or help through covid from the government.

@ChoiceMummy
Yer talking out yer arse

@ChoiceMummy won't be back, it's purely for a reaction.

I think the difference is between the salaried and unsalaried TBH.

I’m not self employed, am I paid by the hour.

No hours, no pay.

@ChoiceMummy is talking (mostly shite) about rich owners of Ltd companies who employ lots of people and take company dividends.

I believe this post was talking about the majority of self employed people who are trades people, childminders, accountants, graphic designers etc. Those people who aren't earning millions and 'swindling' employed tax payers.

Yes self employed people pay less national insurance (although my self employed husband pays more tax than I do being employed). They also don't get sick pay, holiday pay, paid bank holidays, maternity/paternity leave, or any of the other benefits that employed people get.

If you choose to go self employed, then you need to consider that you need to be able to fund sickness, holidays, maternity/paternity. If you can or choose not them it's tough shit to be Frank. They have historically benefitted from being able to have lower wages, pay less tax and no, yet receive high dividends. Their choice.

And I don't believe that their choice should bear any reflection on whether they should isolate or not. They absolutely bloody should.

Likewise, I don't hear the same self employed that received grants for absolutely nothing, offering to return it all when they receive their dividends do you?

I think you are confused about what being self employed is.

As a self employed sole trader I don’t get dividends and the only grant I was entitled to throughout the last two years was £800 which will be taxed so I’m hardly rolling in it.

I will also isolate if I need to as the nature of my work means I would be able to.

@ChoiceMummy

No. They need to consider covering their costs if they are to ill to work.

Being positive when they fell fine is not their problem and they do not have to lose income based on that.

[quote Fleurty]@ChoiceMummy is talking (mostly shite) about rich owners of Ltd companies who employ lots of people and take company dividends.

I believe this post was talking about the majority of self employed people who are trades people, childminders, accountants, graphic designers etc. Those people who aren't earning millions and 'swindling' employed tax payers.

Yes self employed people pay less national insurance (although my self employed husband pays more tax than I do being employed). They also don't get sick pay, holiday pay, paid bank holidays, maternity/paternity leave, or any of the other benefits that employed people get.[/quote]
Many self employed have limited companies and pay themselves a lower wage and take out dividends. Just because some self employed posters haven't doesn't mean others aren't. And tbh if that's disadvantaged them they should babe sought better advice before now!

They're not paid sick pay, holiday pay, paid bank holidays, maternity/paternity leave, or any of the other benefits that employed people ge because they set their salary and ts and Cs, if they don't include amounts within their charges to facilitate this then that is their choice and if they can't afford to them clearly their business isn't actually viable.

I'm not ever going to ever listen to the bleeding hearts of how badly the self employed have it. They chose that path and dont mind the perks of it, yet quiblle over the supposed cons!

It isn't just employed vs self employed though is it? A surprising number of jobs don't offer any sick pay for the first 7 days and only basic SSP after that. With the cost of living rising many employed people can't afford to self-isolate either. Some even have "attendance bonus" that actively encourages staff to come in sick and spread it amongst colleagues and customers.

I know a family where the husband is self employed , has never isolated as had to work to feed the dc and I wouldn’t even have dreamt of reporting them as I understood their struggle

On the flipside, more people out and about spreading covid means people who can't afford to be ill are going to catch it. Many of my self-employed friends have had covid and been way too ill to work for at least a week if not more - and lost a lot of money as a result.

Ssp is £18 pounds a day!

No wonder people have stopped testing or are coming to work covid positive

I’m s/e and employed. I got furlough from one job but nothing at all from the other no grants no help nothing

@ThursdayLastWeek

I think the difference is between the salaried and unsalaried TBH.

I’m not self employed, am I paid by the hour.

No hours, no pay.

This.

I'm self-employed but work by myself at home so wouldn't have to stop work to isolate, obviously would if I was too ill to work but my clients are all lovely and would understand in that situation. Also I charge enormous fees for my work - my friend who is a childminder doesn't because then no-one would be able to afford her service.

My son's on a zero hours contract and he wouldn't get paid if he was ill.

Another friend doesn't get sick pay until after a certain number of days.

This really is about fair sick pay for employed people, having a safety net for unsalaried employed people, and appropriate help for some SE people when they need it.

@ChoiceMummy who do self employed people get dividends from? Those are two completely different things

You don't seen to understand the situatiion very well