Covid isolation showing difference between employed and self-employed...

[melonhead]

I'm sure so many people wouldn't be isolating/calling for people to isolate/taking time off if they weren't guaranteed to keep getting their salary.

It must be easier to say 'I must take time off' if you know it won't affect you financially and if your job is so secure you won't face any penalties at all.

"if you choose to go self employed, then you need to consider that you need to be able to fund sickness, holidays, maternity/paternity"

This post is so fucking ignorant. You have millions of people in this country who have no such choice and are treated as self employed as a way to exploit them and deny them sickness benefits and my worker protections and the companies involved fought them in court. Think about that poor diabetic delivery driver who died because he couldn't afford the fine for his route being given to someone else for the day.

The government encourage and allow it. There is certainly no premium for these people who are grossly underpaid. Get over yourself!

@walksen

"if you choose to go self employed, then you need to consider that you need to be able to fund sickness, holidays, maternity/paternity"

This post is so fucking ignorant. You have millions of people in this country who have no such choice and are treated as self employed as a way to exploit them and deny them sickness benefits and my worker protections and the companies involved fought them in court. Think about that poor diabetic delivery driver who died because he couldn't afford the fine for his route being given to someone else for the day.

The government encourage and allow it. There is certainly no premium for these people who are grossly underpaid. Get over yourself!

But those that are treated as self employed have chosen to accept this and remain in this roles. Everyone has a choice. They may be the most palatable but they have and had choices.

Everyone makes decisions about their life and we shouldn't be having sympathy with a section of the workforce who have, for many decades, benefitted for reduced costs compared to if they had been employees. They liked the good times and as always expect what employees have without acknowledging they haven't paid into the system at the same level to be eligible for it or have chosen not be a part of the employee system. In times of gluttony they won and now in leaner times need to use what should have been put away to manage this time.

"But those that are treated as self employed have chosen to accept this"

Like I said. Ignorant.

@ChoiceMummy why should someone care more about some stranger than their own family?

ChoiceMummy you seem to have a bit of a chip on your shoulder, I don't think you grasp the range of jobs and income levels involved here? Why do you think they're somehow all raking it in and now they're getting their comeuppance? It doesn't reflect the reality at all.

I have chosen to accept that I am self employed (whatever that means)

You need to accept that as a self employed person, I get to choose whether I still work with covid or not 💁🏻‍♀️

Why are people still testing?

If you don't test, you don't know if you have Covid and so don't have to worry about being at work or not.

@ChoiceMummy has made a choice to double down on their embarrassing lack of understanding of the differences between the meaning of self employment, limited companies and freelancing.
But even if any of what they said was factually accurate, even the most savvy freelancers would never have financially prepared for two years of pandemic.
I'm freelance because my entire industry is. I'm a saver and on a decent rate so always have a savings buffer, but if I hadn't been one of the very small number of people able to stay in work two years ago then like many others I'd have suffered a potentially catastrophic financial hit.

Unfortunately, a lot of the people I know who are self employed, were managing quite nicely until the pandemic hit. I Always factored in taking holidays and had Enough set by for a couple of weeks to be off sick. But the pandemic has meant months off work because of lockdowns and then many days off waiting for tests to come back, which invariably came back negative. Then more time off when a test came back positive. It’s not really a situation anyone thought about when deciding to become self employed and yes, we all know that we could change jobs, but it’s not really that easy to change job/career for any reasons.

Dh and I work in a factory. We can work with covid and we both worked with covid positive people last week. Only ruling is you must wear a mask for 10 days if you or a family member test positive.
Would we work with covid? You bet! No pay for first 3 days off sick and then ssp.

Gov advice to still isolate with covid ends on 31 March. Google is you don’t believe

So all these ‘stay at home’ hero’s will have to shut up!

"Likewise, I don't hear the same self employed that received grants for absolutely nothing, offering to return it all when they receive their dividends do you?"

Self employed don't get dividends from their business. That's directors of limited companies. Directors of limited companies, generally, didn't get much in the way of help due to covid as they are employees of their company.

The self employed grants are taxable income so some did get paid back via self assessment returns, unless businesses were loss making or earning (including grants) were below personal allowances.

You obviously don't agree with the grants by the tone of your post, but the reality is they were needed at the time. Thousands of businesses were told to shut their doors with no way of making any money to live on

@Waxonwaxoff0

Many employed people can't afford to take time off either. SSP isn't enough if you've got no savings. Some people are on 0 hour contracts and get nothing. It's not unique to the self employed.

I agree with this.

If people face losing wages/income they don't stay home when sick.

Some employers also will look to start disciplinary proceedings if off ill too much

"Many self employed have limited companies and pay themselves a lower wage and take out dividends. Just because some self employed posters haven't doesn't mean others aren't. And tbh if that's disadvantaged them they should babe sought better advice before now!"

And are therefore not self employed!! Maybe learn the inference between Self-employed and directors of limited companies. An owner of a limited company is treated as an employee of the company and is not treated as self employed.

OP there is a difference I agree. SSP issues and zero hours contracts as mentioned. Also a difference between those who can work from home and those whose job requires them to be at a workplace.

Such ignorance about self employment.

Many people are forced into it by unscrupulous employers keen to dodge employment legislation.

It's almost impossible to get an employed job in many industries, such as construction, live events and probably many others. Everyone is freelance or 'self employed' against their will.

Most would love the security and benefits of employment but it's simply not on offer.

There were also millions of SE people who didn't qualify for any grants for spurious reasons so had to survive on their partners income, savings or extremely limited benefits.

Employed people have no idea of self employment, and why should they, but they love to give their advice anyway...!!

Yes you can take time off if you're self employed, but usually that means your clients or customers find someone else to provide your service, even if they think you're great.

I didn't take a bean of furlough or grants during Covid and I don't have a huge dividend pot either. I've just created my own job and I'm proud of it. But equally, I've not isolated or taken time off if 'pinged'... I've just kept working from home. Like every other self employed person I know, and unlike those on safe contracts.

Yes you can take time off if you're self employed, but usually that means your clients or customers find someone else to provide your service, even if they think you're great.

Exactly. People won't wait around. If you're say, a plumber and have a job booked in and cancel it last minute because you "morally" need to isolate, the client isn't going to wait until you have a space - they'll just ring round and find someone else.

There was a thread only the other day, from a poster have a proper moan about her childminder closing due to covid in the family. She was horrid about her and luckily other posters rightfully set her straight. It could so easily have gone the other way.

Dh is self-employed. He certain doesn’t get any dividends. He earns less than a salaried employee doing the same job. But companies aren’t employing any new staff now. You have to be freelance, and compete with other freelancers to get the work. It’s virtually impossible to make ends meet, though.

Meant to add, he’s wiped out with covid and hasn’t worked for over a week- or got paid, of course.

@ChoiceMummy

There is actually very little in tax/NIC paid between a self employed person or a limited company paying the "low" salary and dividend payment method. Rules have changed in recent years. Go back several years and there was a significant difference, but no longer, mainly due to the personal tax charge on dividends.

You seem to be ignoring the corporation tax on the company profits. So CT of 19% is paid on profits, and then personal dividend tax of 7.5% (basic rate). Dividends certainly aren't tax free as you allude.

Dh tested positive this morning. Work asked him if he would be coming in. He said maybe if he feels better tomorrow. Today is unpaid.