Anyone managed to get a child passport renewed without the required countersignature?

[ToodelooMarylou]

I need to renew my child's passport (dc will be 5 in a few months) and we don't know anyone from the list of acceptable professions to countersign. My dcs first passport was countersigned by our dentist but we have changed dentist since. Has anyone been in similar circumstances? Has anyone managed to get a child's passport renewed without being countersigned?

weaselish of course it is and possibly systematically racist too as not many ethnic minorities who come to this country will know people from that list

I’m ethnic minority and “came to this country” and I barely no anyone who isn’t on the list. Minority ethnic workers are massively over represented in the NHS and care service as well as small business ownership or employment by small businesses. They may fall down on the holding a British passport but, to be fair, if you aren’t entitled to a British passport because you’ve lived here for less than 2 years then you aren’t going to be looking for someone to countersign either. The idea that ethnic minorities are all sitting in free council houses refusing to work or engage in society or get qualifications is racist bollocks. The fact that you haven’t just come to this country, speak perfectly adequate English, but can’t be fucked to talk to another living soul is on you. Ask the bloke in the chip shop or the place that fixes exhausts or a plasterer. Ask the manager in Tesco if that’s the only shop in your area. Ask the preschool head, the school secretary, the under 7s football coach, the rainbow or beavers leader. Ask a friend, someone you were at school with, someone from your old job, someone from your partners job or last job but don’t claim that it’s elitist or racist to have to know other people.

@eurochick

Why would being made redundant or moving mean you wouldn't have anyone to countersign? Those people would still have known you for two years+ if they did before you moved or were made redundant. It is all online now. I recently countersigned a photo for someone who lives in Scotland. I'm in the SE of England.

Before you could renew online you just sent the form and photos by post to your counter signatory, they signed and posted it all back to you. It really wasn’t that complicated.

Well said @SimpleShootingWeekend .

Can't your husband contact an ex colleague and ask them to do it?

It's all online now, so easy to ask an acquaintance you used to know in the past but don't live near now.

Try and think outside the box a bit - do your/DH parents have any friends that knew you/him as a child/young adult? An old teacher of yours from secondary school? That's much more than 2 years. You don't stop knowing someone just because you haven't seen them for years - I'd be able to sign for an old schoolmate or colleague (and would be happy to) if they got in contact.

@simpleshootingWeekend if you don't see how it is elitist and possibly systematically racist then you've got blinkers on. Yes, of course a lot of ethnic minorities contribute a lot to the British society and I am not denying that. But this requirement is likely to put minorities at more of an disadvantage. Especially those who have small children so can't ask their teachers/headteachers . Of course I am not talking about privileged lot like you. Even suggesting football coaches and club instructors etc shows your privilege. Since when do people befriend the manager of their supermarket? Let alone asking him/her to countersign I don't even know who they are. I just get my bread and milk from there and get out. I've known a few minorities who have had trouble finding countersignatories . You need to check your privilege.

I've known a few minorities who have had trouble finding countersignatories

Have you? Because I thought you hardly knew anyone at all. That you didn't have any friends and you didn't have any family. That you didn't have a job or any former colleagues to ask.

You haven't anyone to countersign for you because of decisions you have made.

@Desert76 thank you for replying. Yes, I can ask someone to countersign but it won't be anyone from that list. I don't know what they mean by "good standing" but if it's someone who doesn't have a criminal record I can find one. If it's someone from that list , then I can't. So as an example if they are not elitist and would be happy for it to be countersigned by someone of tesco check out level then won't be a problem. I can't u derstsnd why a tesco checkout persons signature won't do but a tesco managers would. Surely most tesco managers are usually checkout people or are people of similar grade but just get promoted? So basically you can't countersign if you work in a supermarket and earn minimum wage (elitist) but you can if you earn higher as a manager even though the manager may have started out as a checkout!

@QuillBill yes I did know. Those who I used to work with. I don't keep in touch with former colleagues. I am not on social media either. Surely passport department doesn't expect people to keep in touch with former colleagues in order to use them in future as countersignatories?

@QuillBill if they drop the list and would accept anyone with a passport, then I can find someone, just about.

I can't understand how you can't think of anyone?

Do you not have any friends? Or their wives/husbands? Or your employers? Parents of dc's classmates? Do you do any volunteering? Hairdresser? Leaders/teachers of kids clubs?

They need to have known you for two years, it can be done online so doesn't matter if it's someone you've known for thirty years that lives in your home town 300 miles away.

School crossing patrol is a person of good community standing who works for the local authority and gets to know lots of parents over the years

I didn't even look at theist when we renewed DC's passport last month. Just asked a friend who has an admin job who has known me more than 2 years.

So yes, Im pretty sure your Tesco checkout operator, if they have their own passport and have known you more than 2 years would be accepted.

If you list the jobs that any friends you have have we can find you one who fits the bill.

On the one hand you have a broad enough life to encompass knowing a few different 'minorities' that have struggled with the unusual problem of being unable to find someone to countersign their passport but on the other hand you don't know very many people at all.

These minorities that you know, can't they do it?

[quote ToodelooMarylou]@QuillBill yes I did know. Those who I used to work with. I don't keep in touch with former colleagues. I am not on social media either. Surely passport department doesn't expect people to keep in touch with former colleagues in order to use them in future as countersignatories?[/quote]
Not on social media? You sure about that?

And it’s not a definitive list - it’s examples of professions / jobs that would make people suitable signatories.

But sure, let’s “drop the list” because you think it’s elitist and racist.

Jeez, just make some friends.

It literally says a person of good standing or a recognised profession and before the list is says they are examples.

It’s nowhere near as restrictive as you’re trying to make out it is.

You mentioned pharmacy. If the ladies at the counter are registered pharmacy technicians then they are members of a professional body

You’re being a bit of a dick now OP, there are hundreds of ideas in this thread but you’re throwing every one back and repeatedly focussing on the “elitist” bollocks.

Have a think about why the passport office have a list in the first place, and how the system might otherwise be abused.

Why do you keep talking about Tesco checkout staff? Surely you interact with a wide range of people, bank staff, post office staff, people who work in the Gp or the chemist, health workers. It's not elitist to think you might need face to face bank services occasionally or see a member of the clergy (maybe through mums and tots) or use a library or post a parcel now and then and talk to the post master

Maybe all these things, and becoming friendly with the faces behind them, are more common with rural living?

[quote ToodelooMarylou]@QuillBill yes I did know. Those who I used to work with. I don't keep in touch with former colleagues. I am not on social media either. Surely passport department doesn't expect people to keep in touch with former colleagues in order to use them in future as countersignatories?[/quote]
You'll need to keep in touch to ask for a reference every now and then so why not

[quote ToodelooMarylou]@QuillBill if they drop the list and would accept anyone with a passport, then I can find someone, just about.[/quote]
The list is not exclusionary - you do not have to choose off the list.

As has been explained multiple times in this thread,

This has all the makings of a Daily Mail article. TBH

I agree that OP is kind of over-egging the elitist point now but I do get how this can happen. I really struggled to get someone to sign for DS passport when he was a baby because everyone who knew me/I was in any kind of contact with other than family hadn’t known me for more than 2 years as I’d moved around a lot when I was younger, and again a few months prior to applying for the passport. I don’t think the issue with a lot of these suggestions is necessarily that OP doesn’t know ANY of them, but if they do then they haven’t known each other over 2 years, and if they have known each other over 2 years they aren’t on the list. Obviously as pointed out it isn’t exhaustive but it can be difficult to know if someone will be accepted or not.

@SmellyOldOwls

Why do you keep talking about Tesco checkout staff? Surely you interact with a wide range of people, bank staff, post office staff, people who work in the Gp or the chemist, health workers. It's not elitist to think you might need face to face bank services occasionally or see a member of the clergy (maybe through mums and tots) or use a library or post a parcel now and then and talk to the post master

Maybe all these things, and becoming friendly with the faces behind them, are more common with rural living?

Bearing in mind that I do know people who can countersign them now at work, if I look outside work,

Bank staff - branch closed 3 years ago. Everything is done online through an app. Don't think the guy on the phone in random overseas location is going to be able to verify an application.
Post Office - ditto. The main one in the town centre is constantly packed and they would surely be a conflict of interest when they also do the applications? Otherwise I'd be asking somebody who has never seen me before in their life to claim that they did know me.
Chemist - never seen the same person in there twice. Hardly surprising when you think about the next point.
GP surgery. The one that doesn't have in person appointments and don't complete passport verifications. Oh, and I'd need to speak to somebody of certain nationality/ethnicity to get a GB passport holder. Which might prove impossible.
Clergy. Would have to be religious for that. Never saw a priest, vicar or other such thing in the community centre as it was nothing to do with any church. Can somebody who is from another country and not a GB passport holder verify a GB passport application anyhow? Because round here, there aren't many ministers who would fit into the Vicar of Dibley.
Library. Closed. Probably going to be more flats.
Post Master. You what now? Are we in Pontypandy or wherever Pat and Jess live?
Shopping - all done online.
People for references - no, just HR addresses - and businesses close, people move on.

Half my family can countersign, including me, DP's family can, but outside that, you're looking at accosting random strangers to commit fraud or grilling people who are probably quite rightly sensitive as to whether they are British or not, what with not living in a cosy little enclave of ethnic homogeneity.

@NeverDropYourMooncup when my dc were young I knew a couple of the vicars in our town through playgroups. They also used to pop into lots of community events in the school holidays. I have never actually attended church.

I however will talk and be friendly with anyone so especially when my dc were very young I would have also been able to ask the people in the pharmacy, in the post office and actually our post lady too.

@SmellyOldOwls

Why do you keep talking about Tesco checkout staff? Surely you interact with a wide range of people, bank staff, post office staff, people who work in the Gp or the chemist, health workers. It's not elitist to think you might need face to face bank services occasionally or see a member of the clergy (maybe through mums and tots) or use a library or post a parcel now and then and talk to the post master

Maybe all these things, and becoming friendly with the faces behind them, are more common with rural living?

I live in suburban London. There's no way I could ask any of the people in that list. Yes I interact with them, in some cases fairly regularly, but they wouldn't know my name.

Like a PP I have people I can ask, as I have friends who are teachers, nurses etc, but I couldn't just approach someone in the community.