Anyone managed to get a child passport renewed without the required countersignature?

[ToodelooMarylou]

I need to renew my child's passport (dc will be 5 in a few months) and we don't know anyone from the list of acceptable professions to countersign. My dcs first passport was countersigned by our dentist but we have changed dentist since. Has anyone been in similar circumstances? Has anyone managed to get a child's passport renewed without being countersigned?

Their teacher or headteacher. Go as a request rather than a demand and a small token gift afterwards and they won’t mind.

I'm not sure it's elitest when your prison/probation officer or your child's social worker could sign it, it doesn't say in what capacity you have to know them.
Retail managers can sign them if you know anyone who does that kind of work.

@ToodelooMarylou

Of course it is previlege. How often do you get to know people in that list for 2 years. Can I ask my tesco check out colleague to countersign the form? no? I didn't think so

It's not privileged to know people on the list OP. I know people who cover around 60-70% of the accepted professions. Some through work, some as friends & some through my parents. I have family members who are in professions listed.

Have a think about everyone you know & what their job is and there will be someone who can do it.

@RewildingAmbridge

I'm not sure it's elitest when your prison/probation officer or your child's social worker could sign it, it doesn't say in what capacity you have to know them. Retail managers can sign them if you know anyone who does that kind of work.

Bit of a bugger if you're in that middleground of being poor and not a petty criminal or needing social services to get involved in your life.

That's the ridiculous thing - I could now countersign somebody's passport but wouldn't have been able to get one myself under these rules.

Sorry, I’m a bit confused. Children passports last for five years so to renew it your child would already be in school in Reception at the very least.

My daughter got her passport at two weeks old in a one day appointment and that will see her to nearly the end of reception. So by the time your child needs a new passport, the school will have known you for nursery and reception.

Regarding suggestions of elitism, Parents can use we their employer or a colleague to sign child's passport. What's elitist about assuming 1 parent will be in employment🤷🏼‍♀️
And if they have changed jobs recently can use an ex-employer/colleague

There's a pretty long list:

Recognised professions
Examples of recognised professions include:
• accountant
• airline pilot
• articled clerk of a limited company
• assurance agent of recognised company
• bank or building society official
• barrister
• chairman or director of a limited company
• chiropodist
• commissioner for oaths
• councillor, for example local or county
• civil servant (permanent)
• dentist
• director, manager or personnel officer of a VAT-registered company
• engineer with professional qualifications
• financial services intermediary, for example a stockbroker or insurance broker
• fire service official
• funeral director
• insurance agent (full time) of a recognised company
• journalist
• Justice of the Peace
• legal secretary (fellow or associate member of the Institute of Legal Secretaries and PAs)
• licensee of a public house
• local government officer
• manager or personnel officer of a limited company
• member, associate or fellow of a professional body
• Member of Parliament
• Merchant Navy officer
• minister of a recognised religion (including Christian Science)
• nurse (RGN or RMN)
• officer of the armed services
• optician
• paralegal (certified paralegal, qualified paralegal or associate member of the Institute of Paralegals)
• person with honours, for example an OBE or MBE
• pharmacist
• photographer (professional)
• police officer
• Post Office official
• president or secretary of a recognised organisation
• Salvation Army officer
• social worker
• solicitor
• surveyor
• teacher or lecturer
• trade union officer
• travel agent (qualified)
• valuer or auctioneer (fellow or associate members of the incorporated society)
• Warrant Officers and Chief Petty Officers

And it says these are just examples others may be ok including drs who know you personally (my dr friend did mine but he's not my dr). And the pub landlord is on the list too

@gogohm

There's a pretty long list:

Recognised professions
Examples of recognised professions include:
• accountant
• airline pilot
• articled clerk of a limited company
• assurance agent of recognised company
• bank or building society official
• barrister
• chairman or director of a limited company
• chiropodist
• commissioner for oaths
• councillor, for example local or county
• civil servant (permanent)
• dentist
• director, manager or personnel officer of a VAT-registered company
• engineer with professional qualifications
• financial services intermediary, for example a stockbroker or insurance broker
• fire service official
• funeral director
• insurance agent (full time) of a recognised company
• journalist
• Justice of the Peace
• legal secretary (fellow or associate member of the Institute of Legal Secretaries and PAs)
• licensee of a public house
• local government officer
• manager or personnel officer of a limited company
• member, associate or fellow of a professional body
• Member of Parliament
• Merchant Navy officer
• minister of a recognised religion (including Christian Science)
• nurse (RGN or RMN)
• officer of the armed services
• optician
• paralegal (certified paralegal, qualified paralegal or associate member of the Institute of Paralegals)
• person with honours, for example an OBE or MBE
• pharmacist
• photographer (professional)
• police officer
• Post Office official
• president or secretary of a recognised organisation
• Salvation Army officer
• social worker
• solicitor
• surveyor
• teacher or lecturer
• trade union officer
• travel agent (qualified)
• valuer or auctioneer (fellow or associate members of the incorporated society)
• Warrant Officers and Chief Petty Officers

And it says these are just examples others may be ok including drs who know you personally (my dr friend did mine but he's not my dr). And the pub landlord is on the list too

I didn't know any of those when DD was small.

I only know people in five of those categories now through a job I wouldn't have been able to get had I been subject to the same rules I now have to enforce upon others.

It is absolutely elitist.

@patritus

Regarding suggestions of elitism, Parents can use we their employer or a colleague to sign child's passport. What's elitist about assuming 1 parent will be in employment🤷🏼‍♀️ And if they have changed jobs recently can use an ex-employer/colleague

My previous boss wasn't able to countersign because he wasn't a UK passport holder. Small family business, no other colleagues that were GB Passport holders.

I think the school/ teacher can do it

The list of professionals is an example, not exclusive! Their job title doesn't have to be in the list. You are basically saying you don't know anyone with a job outside your family? Is that right? Bonkers.

You don’t need a signature for a renewal. I have most done mine and dds online. I had a code from the photo shop to input rather than sending actual pictures. No signatures required.

I get it totally. I'm an introvert too and find it very difficult to make friends. I would try these...

• friends of parents (get parents to brainstorm people they know that also know you)
• friends partners from your old town. They might know you well enough even though you're not directly friends with them.

With gentleness, it isn't the Passport Office's issue that you find it hard to make friends/acquaintences. It's not elitist as they have a catch-all category of 'good standing in the local community'. If you want to give it an -ist, it would be introvert-ist.

You need to find a way to make a variety of friends, maybe join a class/group, volunteer or chat to work colleagues? Or can your child join a club/class so the leader of that club can sign under 'good standing in the local community'? Dance class, martial arts, Squirrels/Rainbows. They will get to know you as the parent if you say hi to them, join the parents WhatsApp group etc. Doesn't help you at this moment, but will give you people to ask in the future.

@Krabapple

You don’t need a signature for a renewal. I have most done mine and dds online. I had a code from the photo shop to input rather than sending actual pictures. No signatures required.

I renewed my kids’ passports online in 2020 (took photos at home and uploaded them) and had to get a friend to agree to verification from the passport office. The same friend renewed his son’s last year and my husband verified that one. All done by email. The Passport Office website says for age 11 and under you have to do this (I just checked)

@rattlemehearties

The list of professionals is an example, not exclusive! Their job title doesn't have to be in the list. You are basically saying you don't know anyone with a job outside your family? Is that right? Bonkers.

At the time, I was surrounded by SAHM. Some had boyfriends who were builders or van drivers, but the majority were single Mums I'd only known for a few months through a Mum and Baby group.

That's the point. You're assuming that everybody knows somebody in a professional role socially for over two years (or is a criminal/in need to social worker input), but when you actually look at the poorer people in society, they don't. If you have a zero hours or temporary contract, you aren't there for long enough for anybody to know you. People move on, places close. Poor people tend to live in areas where you don't have mates, neighbours or acquaintances who are professionals; there aren't many barristers living on sink estates.

If I were to be made redundant or move, I'd be straight back to not knowing anybody who could countersign a photo.

It feels elitist when you read the suggested jobs because if like me then you don't know people in those kind of jobs.
The best way to look at it is to think of people that you have known for 2 years, find out if they have a passport and work it that way...
For example our neighbour is retired but that's ok, they can put retired in front of their job title but it turned out their passport had expired... Anyone with a job or retired from a job is usually suitable - and it doesn't have to be a full-time job - so cleaners, carers etc whether they are self employed or employed.
Lastly if there are people supporting you because you are not working - social services, health visitor, church or voluntary group leaders then they can do it.
You have recognised that your own decision to withdraw from social interaction is limiting for your kids so it's good that you are going to put yourselves out there at least for their sake. I don't think its right to keep quoting that people should check their privilege - it's you're choice to not interact with people. Privilege is about opportunities - the opportunities are there but you choose not to take them. If you have recently moved then you need to request the help of someone that knew you 2 years ago...

I just remembered when I sent ds2 passport through the passport check and send service at the post office, the worker there told me he could countersign for me next time.

Dbro got his friend who worked in Sports Direct to countersign for his son.

I hope you find someone soon.

The UK list of acceptable counter signatories is more wide ranging than other countries

maybe but in other countries you can just go to your local town hall and do it, so you don't need the whole counter signatory thing in the first place

I struggled a few years ago because I had changed jobs and moved house and you couldn't do it online back then. By pure luck and coincidence, it turned out that one of my new colleagues had been at college with me, so had technically known me for more than two years.

OP you could ask the unfriendly other neighbour. She might be willing to do it. I am not very friendly and don't know the neighbours well, but if someone from down the road who I knew slightly knocked on the door and asked, I would do it.

If I were to be made redundant or move, I'd be straight back to not knowing anybody who could countersign a photo but you can do it online now, so it would be ok if you moved or changed jobs - but you're right that a few years ago it was a real problem.

[quote ToodelooMarylou]@ukborn the gov.uk www has a link to a whole list of people who can sign.[/quote]
The list is just a rough guide though and not complete.

My SIL works in admin for the local council, not an elitist job at all, but she can sign them. Same when she worked in the tax office.

Anyone who has their own business, as long as it’s registered, can do it too so do you know anyone that makes and sells things as as long as they’re registered they can sign.

Why would being made redundant or moving mean you wouldn't have anyone to countersign? Those people would still have known you for two years+ if they did before you moved or were made redundant. It is all online now. I recently countersigned a photo for someone who lives in Scotland. I'm in the SE of England.

The jobs are only the suggested ones though they are not an exclusive list. You can use anybody in good standing who you have known for 2 years and has a passport. So I think you could use someone who works in Tescos, worked in a bar, is retired etc. The way it is presented makes it look a lot more elitist than it actually is. Almost everyone must have known someone for 2 years who has a passport and some kind of a job and/or no criminal record.

Tesco shift leaders and managers can sign it.

It’s not elitist, or racist, or anything anyone needs to ‘check their privilege’ over. M
If you haven’t maintained a relationship with anyone for more than 2 years, that’s not a systemic inequality thing. It’s individual.