Breastfeeding: is this a problem?

[Thejoyfulstar]

I live abroad but am from the UK. I has a babyb4 weeks ago who was born with respiratory distress. After 24 hours in NICU she was fine but my milk didn't come in until Day 5 and I suffered from dreadful nipple pain which hindered feeding even more.

My baby was 3460g at birth. She dropped to 3165g at 6 days old. They gave me a plan to breastfeed on demand and supplement with expressed milk or formula but this was though as she didn't want anything extra than my breasts. I was syringing in every bit of expressed milk I could get into her and giving her formula in a bottle, which she often vomited. By Day 9 she was 3220g.

Regrettably I decided that I would then focus on just feeding her from the breast. As far as I could tell, I had milk. I've breastfed 2 other children successfully so thought I knew what I was doing.

I leak milk when I haven't fed in a while. My breasts feel hard and full and after she feeds, the feel soft and empty. I can see by the movement between her ear and jaw that she is drinking, and I can hear it too. Afterwards she is contented and is a very settled, happy and alert baby. I change her nappy every 2 or 3 hours and there is always wee or poo. She sleeps a lot but I wake her if 3 hours go by to feed and she is feeding almost the entire time she is awake. My husband and I have been joking that we feel how heavy and chubby she is getting.

I took her to the paediatrician for her 4 week check today and she is 3550g. He says that is not enough weight gain and I have to give formula. I said could I still breastfeed. He basically said what's the point as I clearly don't have milk.

I am so upset and confused. I was certain that my baby was transferring a good deal of milk. The initial latch is still painful but that was the same in the early days of breastfeeding my other 2. I fed my middle child until she was 1 and never had an issue like this.

I feel like where I am, doctors overreact about things that drs in the UK would not. At the same time I don't want to be so arrogant to think I don't need to take their advice. I feel like I have put my heart and soul into establishing our breastfeeding journey and feel totally floored that is has all been for nothing. Am trying to find an English speaking lactation consultant but am really struggling to do so.

Does anyone ahve any experience of this? I have received such little support despite asking for it and looking for it. I dont know where to go from here.

I'm really sorry you're having such a hard day! Try not to panic and think "that's it!" It might just be a blip. And if it is coming to an end, at least you can know that you did absolutely everything you could to try and make it work. Much love to you.

@Nightwithhertrainofstars thank you. I'm just praying for peace about whatever path I am supposed to take. I think I will know in a few days. I just have to surrender all this worry because it isn't going to change anything. Thanks for the love, I appreciate it a lot.

Your baby is cared for and loved. She's luckier than most babies on earth. She's had the immune benefits of your bm so far already.

Whatever you end up deciding to do, what matters is that it's your decision, and that you are OK with it.

When you say your milk has dried up, do you mean that you can't express anything and/or your baby doesn't show any evidence of having got any milk from you when you've tried to latch her and feed?

The weight gain is a bit slow but not too concerning and everything else sounds reassuring, so would just be a case of breastfeeding as much as possible and weighing weekly for now to keep an eye on things, doesn’t sound like a need to switch to formula based on the weight alone

P.s. reply above only relevant to your first post

That sounds awful. Honestly, as you have BF previous children I think you know the signs that baby is getting enough milk.

Could the nipple pain be thrush? We had this and BF was painless when it was sorted.

Thank you everyone.
Yesterday at 8pm I went to lie try to lie down as baby had been asleep and wouldn't wake up. My breasts felt empty and I was resigned to giving up breastfeeding, so ignored the little voice inside of me telling me to pump. I justvfelt so tired. Anyway I did, and produced 100 ml out of nowhere. I gavejt to her when she woke up, nursed her and pumped another 50ml.

I've another last few guns in my arsenal that I'm going to use before I fully admit defeat. I'm going to give the iron a chance and see if that makes a difference, and be much more mindful of my diet. I'm also going to make much greater use of night time feeding when my supply is higher, so that I'm feeding or pumping as many calories for her over the course of the day as possible. Let's see.
Thanks again. Your messages mean so much to me.

Oh, why do I think she isn't getting enough...
Yesterday my breasts were empty but also I could tell when sucking, nothing came out. My baby was ducking and getting frustrated, her mouth was dry afterwards, she didn't have the rosy glow of a baby who has had a good feed and she was just letting me know she was hungry. She wolfed down the bottle I gave her.

Tbh I was a lot like you sound now when bf my daughter and the reason I switched her to formula was pretty much because in my
vulnerable, emotional post birth state my mental health could not cope. I don't regret it.

@SmellyOldOwls definitely feel I'm approaching that point!

I really feel for you that your confidence and experience with feeding your older children has been so undermined by the HCPs being so alarmist and negative. What you describe yesterday just sounds to me like the normal process of demand and supply - within a short time of feeling like you didn't have enough milk you produced enough to express 150ml and feed your baby in between.

@RoseslnTheHospital you've hit the nail on the head in that I've no idea what to believe anymore. I always start each day full of renewed confidence as she latches on and drinks well. Then as the day goes on and she doesn't seem satisfied, I end up feeling demoralised and pathetic. I have a lot of anxiety around the medical profession, particularly when in a foreign country as I've had too many bad experiences while living outside the UK. Lots of out of date practice and infantalising patients.

I'm nursing her now. At the start of the feed she spluttered on the let down and then started glugging away-still actively drinking 10 minutes in. I always watch and listen to ensure she's feeding, and she is. I'm on a high then. Then, a few hours later, when there's not as much there and she is eating her fists ferociously after a feed, I feel like such a fool for ever thinking I could resume normal feeding like with my other kids. I then offer the formula with a bit if a heavy heart and feel so silly. I remember the low key horror I felt when the doctor told me she had hardly gained, and how stupid I felt for having thought I was doing a great job.

I have moments if thinking that my supply is absolutely fine and then other moments of feeling like there's nothing there. Going from one emotion to the next over the day is exhausting and I have lost all pride in my appearance and can't concentrate on anything (even stuff my kids tell me).

If I really believed I had low supply, and that my baby wasn't gaining according to up-to-date expectations, I would have thrown the towel in. But I'm in a weird place where I want to be 100% sure that something really is wrong because this is my last baby and I will never get a chance again.

I also want to saw that I am aware how small this issue is in the grand scheme of humour suffering. I'm sure there are mothers in corners of the world who would rip my arm off for formula in the fridge and clean water to prepare it, or enough of a supply to sustain their child to a degree. My attitude to this situation is very much about me and my feelings and I know that it's coming from a selfish place. I'm working on this.

Sorry for the essay. You ladies all seem to understand.

We really do understand, and I really understand the feeling of wanting to enjoy this last baby in the way you thought you would.

TBH, it doesn't sound too bad at all. Are you still taking the supplement the lactation consultant recommended? Do you feel it is making any difference? If you don't, you may want to try a different one. Fennel tea is also often thought to help.

Remember also that your baby is likely to be doing some catch up growth, and that it is normal that she would be very hungry, it is that stimulation that will increase your milk supply too.

Forget everyone else. That doesn't matter. There will always be someone else worse off. Your mental health is #1 priority here whatever that means -whether it's saying enough is enough, or whether it's knowing 100% you're at the end of the road before stopping.

When I had low supply days with DS2 I would try and get him to the breast every hour on the hour for the whole day and let him stay as long as he wanted, that would then seem to boost things about 24-48 hours later.

I liked the fennel tea too - fennel, aniseed and caraway is the mix they do for nursing mothers here.

@CatherinedeBourgh I'm still taking one of the supplements. The other costs 25 quid and only lasts a week.

In a completely shocking turnaround of events, my milk has continued flowing all day. Every time my baby latches on, the tap switches on and out comes the milk.No formula. I saw the scale sitting there and couldn't resist. I know that she has had massive jumps in the past so stuck her on (always weigh her at the same time of day before a feed). 70g on since yesterday!
That's 160g since Monday. Unbelievable but I believe it because I've nearly been at the brink of sanity feeding her!

That is fantastic news! Sounds like all that demand she was putting in is starting to have the expected effect!

@CatherinedeBourgh I hope so because I was starting to lose my mind! I am utterly delighted!

Op, my son was born at 28 weeks. He sucked at 32 weeks. I expressed for him while he was in hospital (9 weeks) he was tube fed then. Once he came home he breast fed until he was two. Don’t give up. Our bodies are truly amazing x

@flibbertyGibbitt wow! That is inspiring!!!

OK, something very strange has happened. I'm not really sure what happened so bear with me as I explain. I was praying about the situation, as I do every morning and I felt like some sort of blockage (?) was cleared. Not a blockage in my breasts but something more visceral/systemic. Almost like a huge hormonal shift. I suddenly felt perky, bright eyed, energetic, sane, rational, solid, stable, HAPPY. Every time I latched her on, out came milk. Not only have I fed her myself all day without supplements, but it has been easy, plentiful and it feels right, no matter the time of day. I have no idea what has happened but I hope these past two weeks have been a sobering and humbling period of my life that I can leave behind. Yesterday I felt so hopeless! Unbelievable.

I hope this is the breakthrough for you that it seems to be and things continue like that! We're all rooting for you and LO!

@Nightwithhertrainofstars thank you. I can't explain it but I feel completely normal. It happened all at once I had a c section with this baby and yesterday I felt all of this lingering post-operative/partum feelings of lethargy, brain fog, pain etc just lift in one moment. I was sitting on the sofa and felt different. When I went to feed baby, the milk just poured out. I had a feeling that everything was OK now. Every time I fed since, I've had milk. Enough milk!!!! Baby Bob's off the breast in a milk coma, with sleepy eyes, pink cheeks and milk pouring from her mouth. Still happening now.

I cannot explain it. Before I felt that even with the pumping, tablets, food, water etc, I was climbing up a hill with the wind in my face. Everything felt difficult, a struggle, futile. Since that one moment yesterday I just feel completely fine, that all systems are operating normally and there is just complete equilibrium within my body.

I explained to my husband that I feel like all of the efforts I went to were like doing CPR until the ambulance arrives. I was keeping everything going mechanically until a certain point when my hormones would come and debfribriliate my entire system. I feel like the problem has been solved at the root and I cannot explain it! Interestingly, yesterday was exactly 40 days since I had my baby, which I know is considered by some cultures as the amount of days required to recover from childbirth.

I have a feeling that this struggle is over and am healed of whatever it was that was holding me back. I feel like I have snapped out of some spell!

Thank you for everything everyone. Your kindness and support got me through such an upsetting and confusing time. None of you made me feel like I was overreacting or being silly. You all got it. Thank you so much!!!!

By the way, while this story seems to have ended in the way that I wanted, I still do believe that fed is best and nothing is worth your mental health. I got this breakthrough just right at my breaking point and moving to formula or combi feeding would definitely have been the best thing for me and my baby (if anyone else is reading this and is going through the same struggle).

I'll update you with her weight tomorrow and leave it at that. Thanks again everyone x

And just to finish off the thread, for anyone who stumbles across it in future, baby has gained 245g since last Monday (8 days) and my supply is plentiful! Relief!

Over and out :-)