Parent with dementia ( possible) can the house be transferred onto child's name

[Tigersonvaseline]

This isn't me it's a friend.

Her dad's getting assessment at memory clinics etc And today forgot his name and where he was.
Friend Said she's visiting solicitor this week to see if the house can be put into her name.

I'm sure on here

Not necessarily. Frequent urination, increased urge, cloudy urine, low grade temp, mild discomfort might not have thought too much about it

It is quite common for people to not realise they have a UTI. Bramblesr is giving good advice about infection and also the capacity assessment.

they wouldn’t need to pay her rent if the house is jointly owned. If they are a couple chances are they bought joint and since the mum is still alive she owns the half. The dad lacks capacity already so he can’t sign his portion away. It needs to go through a solicitor now. I’d wait till the health checks come back now as if he needs to go into care they’ll put a charge against his house. Believe me social services have seen it all and him signing over part of the house a few months before will be brought up. It’s a very sneaky move

Mental capacity and memory assessment are different. You shouldn’t be making judgements before assessing someone properly.

He was having an in depth discussion about Russia/ Putin/ NATO/ on Monday.
I'm no expert but I think there are different kind's of dementia and it's a spikey profile? So whilst low key stuff happens... enough for memory clinics , nothing major has occured till today but later on today he could be fine.

He may know his name for week's..but decline again

@Bramblesr

Mental capacity and memory assessment are different. You shouldn’t be making judgements before assessing someone properly.

Different, but you cannot have capacity if you do not have a reasonable short-term memory, because a key test of capacity is the ability to retain and assess relevant information.

The LPA is a red herring in the context of the question in the OP, anyway., as an LPA would not allow the person who held it (the donee) to transfer ownership of a house to herself. As well falling foul of the Local Authority, if there were care costs, an attempt to appropriate the donor's property would likely to be an offence under the MCA, and potentially (depending on the intent) the Fraud Act 2006. The donee could potentially sell the house (as long as in the interests of the donor), but that isn't going to work here because there is a spouse.

One of the reasons of wanting too put the house in her name which obviously looks highly unlikely is / was to also protect him from the son who won't make any decisions based on dad's needs wants but out of greed.
So maybe lpa is better??

@Tigersonvaseline

He was having an in depth discussion about Russia/ Putin/ NATO/ on Monday. I'm no expert but I think there are different kind's of dementia and it's a spikey profile? So whilst low key stuff happens... enough for memory clinics , nothing major has occured till today but later on today he could be fine.

He may know his name for week's..but decline again

Fluctuating capacity is very tricky. If the family are short of cash, your friend might want to wait until he has been seen at memory clinic before consulting the solicitor, because the options available are going to be radically different if his loss of capacity is reversible.

However, if the primary reason for considering an LPA is to try to avoid paying for care costs (by transferring ownership of the house) that is very, very unlikely to be an option, especially if in England and Wales (slightly easier in Scotland, I believe).

Dementia is strongly in family.

They want to protect their " home" and protect him themselves from bullying brother who won't make future decisions based on his best interests.

Eg if great care home was 100 more expensive,he would veto it And get him in the cheap one.

What are they concerned the brother could do with someone else’s house?

The brother can’t take the house from his parents and make any decisions. Unless There’s some more to this. If the mum is fine then she would be making all the decisions on care and money etc not the children.

It's entirely possible to do if he has capacity.

It's a really bad idea and will be considered deliberate deprivation of assets and the local authority could (likely will if he doesn't have loads of savings) if he needs to pay for care. I'd never recommend anyone do it.

It's not necessarily too late for LPA, he'd need a capacity assessment. It's absolutely the first thing that should be considered.

No, neither MIL or my DF recognised the symptoms of Urinary Tract Infections. There was a time when Dad would say strange things and it was nearly always associated with one. Treated the infection and he was fine. Sadly vascular dementia got the better of him
Infections often present with confusion in elderly people..

If they could turn back time, what they should have done is get the LPAs before there was any record of memory loss. It's too late now because, even though he hasn't been seen in memory clinic yet, the information about their concerns will be in his medical record, as part of the referral process. Any attempt to get an LPA between now and when he is seen in memory clinic would be ill-advised, because it is a matter of record that he has memory impairment. The LPA could therefore be challenged and they could end up in serious trouble.

However, the memory clinic may find that he has a reversible cause of memory deficit. UTI is unlikely, because he will have been screened for this before referral, but there are other possible causes, such as certain vitamin and mineral deficiencies. Or memory clinic might find fluctuating capacity which might allow an LPA to be put in place (depends on the exact circumstances).

Having an LPA is useful if there is a predatory relative like the brother. But it won't solve the house ownership issue. If the father turns out to have capacity, he can transfer the ownership, e.g. to his spouse or set up a trust. That would protect them from the son, but not from having to pay care costs.

Too much to Go into but the brother is bully and has tried to interfere with the will before.

Really tried to bully the dad when they were dealing with her mum recent operations!!

He's a ruthless nasty peice of work but the mum whilst gets driven mad by him also seems to in thrall to him!
They are both amazing active for their ages but over 80 .

I guess NY friend doesn't want to be fighting over these things with her dB if it came to it mher mum is mentally sound now And may never need poa

Thanks Lucy.

It's irrelevant whether he has capacity or not. At this stage it will definitely fall under deprivation of assets. It is highly likely that the care services with treat this man as if he still has this asset and treat him accordingly.

I have no patience for threads like this. I'm currently looking at care homes for my parents. One has dementia and the other has had a stroke. If they have nothing to leave as an inheritance then so be it. Far better that they get the care they need.

A POA is an insurance policy for the future taken out on behalf of the family IMHO. Dh and I did them in our 50s, after the issues with my dad. We had an old style one for him and we had issues as it didn't cover healthcare.
OP, if nothing else , your friend must get her mum to do LPOA for health and finance.

@Tigersonvaseline

This isn't me it's a friend.

Her dad's getting assessment at memory clinics etc And today forgot his name and where he was.
Friend Said she's visiting solicitor this week to see if the house can be put into her name.

I'm sure on here

No

@knittingaddict

It's irrelevant whether he has capacity or not. At this stage it will definitely fall under deprivation of assets. It is highly likely that the care services with treat this man as if he still has this asset and treat him accordingly.

I have no patience for threads like this. I'm currently looking at care homes for my parents. One has dementia and the other has had a stroke. If they have nothing to leave as an inheritance then so be it. Far better that they get the care they need.

100%

I’m fed up to the back teeth of people expecting others to pay for care homes for their parents because they want the inheritance then moaning when they don’t get it . You aren’t entitled to one end off.

@Elsiebear90

I could be wrong but won’t it be seen as deprivation of assets if he needs care in the next 7 years?

you are getting mixed up with inheritance tax; that is the 7 year one. deprivation of assets as no time limit; they can go back as far as they like. if it is done after the disability/illness began, which is the case here, then they would view it as deprivation of assets. it's all very difficult. if he forgot his name and orientation, then a solicitor would probably not consider that he had capacity to make the decision re the house.

I’m fed up to the back teeth of people expecting others to pay for care homes for their parents because they want the inheritance then moaning when they don’t get it . You aren’t entitled to one end off.

I'm not sure that's the friend's motivation by the sound of it. Rather it's a side effect of what she IS trying to do, which is to keep grubby grabbing brother from taking as much as can for himself by bullying, that she hasn't thought about.

The thing is OP, that there is potentially a long time from now to when this becomes a reality and a lot can happen in that time.

• Her DF may need to go into care and then the question of deprivation of assets would come into play. But paying for care home fees when there is a house to be taken into consideration is a minefield.

• Even if Df was in a position to grant her LPA it wouldn't sadly stop the brother trying to manipulate things for his own benefit. It sounds like he could get nasty.

I'm glad she's seeing a solicitor. Apart from anything else, she needs to know exactly what is required to avoid the bullying brother coming up with schemes that would count as fraud. She needs to make sure everything is done correctly.

Charlotte rosé and knitting addict I think your post's are incredibly bitchy, unkind and pointless.why on earth post if you have no patience?

My friend is absolutely devoted to her df and is absolutely heart broken.
There was a third sinking who suddenly passed away only a few months ago.
Not that I should be explaining anything to you but this is a family on crisis and I'm trying too see what options are open to them and how to protect themselves going forward because if the house was taken and her mum also made homeless I don't think any of them could cope.
I'm already extremely worried about my friend .

I'm all for having opposing views and debates but it's not relevant here and I don't think MN should allow such post's.