Do you think children ‘inherit’ academic talents?

[Thesefourwhitewalls]

Probably the worst title in the world but I suppose it wouldn’t be a shock if (say) Marcus Rashford had a child who was very sporty, or if Adele’s child showed some talent for singing.

Does this extend to traditional areas of the curriculum? DH is brilliant at maths and earns really well as a result. I am utterly shit at maths and I can barely add up. Just wondering if DS will take after DH or me! Or if it’s not something you inherit?

Genetics are a component, but not the only one and even great genes will often struggle to shine without a good environment and support.

I mean, there is no footballer gene, but certain physical composition, motor skills, and some personality traits that start from genetics and are then supported in their environment & the people around them go a long way.

Similar with maths and other academic areas. Some parts that make a good mathematician will have genetic starts that can either be supported or not. I was shite at maths in school, and moving around a lot did not help, but as an adult I've had better support and retaught myself. I wouldn't say it's my best area, but I can work in data just fine.

We all have ancestors who were illiterate, who barely used maths and nothing like the level of maths commonly expected of secondary school kids now. They can build on our knowledge, but we don't have to exceed at something to support our kids surpass us.

I think everything is a mixture of nature and nurture. We all have innate abilities in some things more than others, but how we are brought up, what's encouraged and what isn't, what opportunities we get, will all influence how we ultimately turn out.
Sport is a good example. Some anatomical and physiological features might give a person a potential advantage in more type of activity, but unless they happen to get the opportunity to try different sports they wouldn't necessarily know that. For example, if Laura and Jason Kenny's son turns out to be a great track cyclist it's tempting to put that down to his genes. And indeed it is likely he will have inherited some physical features that will be very helpful. But how to you unpick that from the influence of being surrounded by a particular sport from birth, having access to the best equipment, training etc? Physically speaking it is possible that he would have equal potential for a number of sports - he could be an incredible skier for example - but I'd say it's fairly likely he'll be at least a reasonably good cyclist!
My DS plays a sport at county level. Recently I discovered that he has an ancestor who played the same sport internationally. Has DS inherited some "good" genes? Who knows. Maybe. However, far more significantly, pupils who previously attended his primary school have been massively over represented in the county squads for years. One of the teachers is also a coach at the local club. She introduces it to the infants in PE and masses of kids join the club. Early exposure to the sport and encouragement must surely be the difference? I can't imagine the kids in our village are really genetically predisposed to success in this specific field.
There are probably equivalents in other things. A child with scientist parents may well have some inherited ability but they are also more likely to be exposed to scientific ideas early, be encouraged and helped with science at school, and to grow up valuing science and seeing it as a good thing to pursue.
Every talent needs opportunity to grow, so it's a mixture of things in my opinion.

I think they found maths was a recessive gene (so both parents need to have it, but parents can be a carrier and not mathematical)
Works in our family. We're relentlessly maths!

I have a maths degree and enjoy maths. Ex did A-level maths.

All of my kids have done/will do maths at A-level

Personally I think it's a combination of nature and nurture. I probably have encouraged more maths related things without realising it plus I've been able to support them with their school work.

I found maths easy from when I started school. This might be because my mother doesn't speak English so encouraged maths instead. My dad doesn't have many qualifications but he's amazing at mental arithmetic.

My kids found their confidence in maths in secondary school when they went from middling to top groups

@MargaretThursday

I think they found maths was a recessive gene (so both parents need to have it, but parents can be a carrier and not mathematical) Works in our family. We're relentlessly maths!

I've not read anything that clear cut - the link below sort of summerizes what I've read - some inhertiablity but not enough to explain everything.

BRAIN STUDY REVEALS HOW MUCH OF MATH ABILITY IS GENETIC

As compelling as these studies are, the big picture is still unchanged. Math ability may have some genetic ties, it probably only explains a small fraction of that ability. Even in the current study, genes only explained 20 percent of math ability on its own.

“This leaves more than 80% of the variance in children’s math abilities unexplained,” Libertus says.

There are clearly envronmental factors at play - below describes how they can impact on women - (and also speculates while there may be genetics involved with women and maths it may not be ability but interest being affected.)

Negative stereotypes make women worse at maths

I hate maths, it makes me cry. I just don't get it, bar the basics, at all. I got E in my GCSE, but did retake it as an adult and managed to get a C. Once the exam was over I forgot everything though.

2 of my children are doing Maths A Level. All of them are good at maths, even the one with learning disabilities is doing the GCSE - he won't be getting the best grade, or even anything past a 1 or 2, but he's enjoying it.

My ex scraped a pass in maths, but he hated school, so although he was good at it he missed a lot by bunking off and not revising etc.

I have no idea where my lot get their brains from! Must have skipped a generation or two!

@MargaretThursday

I think they found maths was a recessive gene (so both parents need to have it, but parents can be a carrier and not mathematical) Works in our family. We're relentlessly maths!

My parents are both brilliant at maths - my mum works in finance and my dad is an engineer - but I am painfully shit at it. The educational psychologist who diagnosed me with dyslexia said she doesn’t think I have dyscalculia because I do understand the concept of numbers, my parallel processing is just so awful I can’t work with them.

I can do the same sum five times and get a different answer each time, none of which will be correct I stare at numbers and I just can’t formulate in my mind how I should go about working out a problem - I don’t see how the numbers interact unless it’s something I’ve memorised like a times table.

Changechangeychange yes, I hear you! He had a very unemotional approach to it I guess and wanted to put his efforts where he felt he would get greatest results. His typical student was a boy with a school report with a D. Parents are appalled and engage tutor to bring the D up to an A.

I'd say that an innate facility and the potential to be good at something, yes.

Whether or not they have the inclination to pursue that natural talent is down to the individual.

The title of this thread implies that there's some sort of value in opinion on this, when in my experience, people's opinions on the inheritability of intelligence can be HIGHLY subject to emotional bias.

It's not a question of whether or not joe public thinks whether this is the case - scientific research has proved it, based on evidence.

thecatsthecats I love your response, it’s really made me laugh, I am going to learn it and adapt it for future discussions with family.

Nature is inherited obviously but nurture also really important. Adopted ds arrived at ours aged 6 with an IQ of around 100. Lucky him, lots of children from abusive backgrounds have much less. He spent most of the first few years smearing bodily detritus on school desks. Now aged 27 he still has an IQ of around 100. But he has A level results of A* BB and a science degree from a Russell group uni and works for the intelligence corps. Because with an IQ of 100 you can do more or less anything with application and opportunity.

I think so yes. Just in terms of artistic ability in our family... I am pretty decent at art but my DH is absolutely not an artist! (he is very academic though)...

My mum is incredible at drawing, as is my MIL and my FIL.

One of our DC has obviously inherited this and is already doing commissions and got a 9 at Fine Art GCSE. The other DC obviously didn't and is not keen on art at all!

Yes, DS is academically able , like myself ( and a lot of my family) but has inherited DHs natural athleticism. He doesn’t excel in sport but has very good hand eye co ordination and naturally reads a game ( whether rugby or football).
He’s an academic all rounder who doesn’t have to study hard to achieve well above average results. Despite all this he lacks self confidence and is a bit of an over thinker. You can’t have everything.

Following with interest, both dc are massive bookworms & excel at maths & English..

I did a education degree assignment on natures vs nurture. There’s a raft of research that backs up both sides of the argument, but the overwhelming point is that you can’t actually test the theory as it would need the scientists carrying out the investigations to use identical twins, separate them at birth, leave one with their parents and place another one with parents with a different IQ then see how they fare.

There are so many factors as to why children of ‘intelligent’ parents achieve may more than those of less intelligent parents. Or of sporting or artistic parents. For example, my DH is an exceptional guitarist. Our DD is too. But she’s been immersed in guitar playing since infancy. He taught himself as a teenager but neither of his parents could play an instrument.

Three Identical Strangers is worth watching.

I’m not convinced. I’m a teacher and I’ve had my plenty of extremely difficult conversations where exceptional parents have seen devastated to hear that their dc is average. Honesty one couple reacted like I’d told them their dc had cancer because I told them his predicted grade was a C.

There's a lot of neurodiversity in our families. I was the bookish child with a humanties degree, generally well rounded, not brilliant, weak spots in maths (funtional) and PE. DH is mathematical and technically minded, PhD... but actually a "late bloomer" and was seen as the weaker child in his family... it strongly looks like he has dyslexia- I had to turn the garbled ramblings of his PhD into gramatical English before others could proof-read for technical content.

DS1 has diagnoses of dyslexia, dyspraxia and ASD. Great at maths, science, humanities, weak in English, arts, languages. DS2 is more rounded but again loves maths and science. Not as extreme in his strengths and difficulties.

They're in a fortunate position. Despite difficulties with reading, they have a book-loving mum who buys to their interests, reads with and to them and chooses attractive, accessible texts. DH grew up with no culture of reading for pleasure. Environmentally, I can't override their wiring, but I can make optimum conditions to help reading be a positive thing.

My parents were educated in the sink or swim era of the 60s-70s. They sank. DM, didn't realise until recent years that text is not supposed to float around the page... probably undiagnosed dyslexia. She's generally intelligent and technical and could have done far better if she was being educated more recently. My father was a "failiure to thrive" and is probably neurodiverse. Most of my cousins are in one way or another. His parents are/ were very sharp and did well for themselves.

I was brought up in extended family with good access to books, and TV in the 80s/ 90s was great for feeding curious brains.
In DH's family, ASD diagnoses are emerging in the younger generation and looking at the majority of males, I suspect along with a SENCO IL, that being autistic is culturally normal in their family. Mathematical/ engineering minds run strong alongside lots of social/ lifestyle traits.

Regardless of nature there's so many influences. Opportunities, education policy, open/ rigid values, finding mentors. Domestic upbringing is important but interest can be switched on/ off by other influences too.

Having intelligent genes are useful, but it's having opportunities and motivation to do something with them that makes them useful.

@Quidity your point about music is interesting - yes practice will make you a 'better' musician and there is the (old now) 10,000 hour theory that it takes 10,000 hours of practice of any skill to elevate from good to brilliant but somehow with music and art there is a 'something' that separates the very competent from the spine chilling.

I completely agree from this, as a musician/pianist myself. I would definitely be inclined to agree regarding the 10,000 theory. Because it's true. I managed to be able to play up to Grade 6 piano pieces without any tutoring, simply from constant and persistent practice myself. I'm just unsure as to whether academic ability fits into this same category but will continue reading replies to see what others think. But thank you for your input. 100% agree with you. If a talent is innate and you were born with it, then with constant and persistent practice, I genuinely believe that anything is possible as I am living proof of that.

As others have said it’s both nature and nurture. Interestingly I know three couples of very intelligent (PhDs etc) parents who all have children with significant learning difficulties to the point of not passing any GCSEs and two will need supported living in adulthood.

I have linguistic abilities, in that I'm fairly proficient in one other language and have a passable knowledge of two others.

My daughter passed an A level in one language and is breezing through in two others , in her own time.

My son seems to have inherited an interest in my husband's hobby ( won't name as it's a bit niche but definitely nothing sporty or active) and I do wonder about transference of interests and ability.

My son also went on to do a Batchelors and a Masters in an academic subject that I loved at A level.

You're probably not shit at maths. You were probably taught badly because maths is gendered at school.

It’s really hard to know. My maths teaching (and most teaching really) was pretty abysmal but I never seemed to ‘get it.’

@AdmiralCain

I have a backround in Nuroscience. When the child is conceived, half the genetic material from the dad and half from the mum will go towards the formation of the childs brain. Whilst pregnant the mothers mental and physical health will go towards Epigentics, these epigentic markers will attach themselves to the babies DNA which will have an effect. I wont bore you with the scientific hormone but omega3 and fatty foods are essential to help with myelin production (White Matter) White matter helps the neuro transmitters where the Axon's of 2 neurons meet. When the baby is born it is a case of Nature AND nurture NOT nature VS nurture. As soon as the baby is born, Imitation, repetition, bodily contact will help, Eye contact to help Mirror neurons to form, No stress, No cortisol and stress in their bodies, Actively engage with them every day do this day in and day out and you will have an amazing empathetical, intelligent baby.

But this is all theory, Being the kindest best version of yourself 24/7 for years until your baby is 5 and their script is written is much harder in practice!!

So if you have a thick parent who smoked and took tranquilisers throughout pregnancy, ate crap, then didn't get around to even seeing you for over a fortnight after birth whilst you were in special care, abuses you, whose only physical contact (or eye contact) is when they're giving you yet another battering and you spend your childhood scuttling around on a filthy floor with a bunch of animals who were always better company than the humans in the same space, you are a literal freak of nature - and absence of nurture - to be intelligent, then?

I know she said I was always weird and horrible but that suggests she might have been more right than she imagined.