Yr4 school residential trip

[Puzzlerpuzzled]

My DS (8 years old) school is having a 4 day (3 night) residential trip for his year group (Year 4) in April. My DS has some anxiety issues, school are vaguely aware of some as he has had periods of being upset going into school in the morning etc and I’ve had to speak to his current teacher a couple of times about different issues. He is highly sensitive, we have always suspected that he has some low level traits of ASD but never serious or extreme enough for us to pursue any form of diagnosis.

DS cannot handle being away from us, he gets very upset about the prospect and whilst he is now ok at going into school each day and does a couple of clubs where we drop and leave him he gets anxious about those and will say he doesn’t want to go due to not wanting to be left. The first time he is left anywhere he will get so upset. Due to covid and his general nature we haven’t had reasons for him to have to stay away from us in the last few years. Recently he was asked to stay at grandparents house, who he adores, but in the end just his siblings ended up staying as he couldn’t cope with being away from us. He doesn’t want sleepovers with any friends.
Anyway onto my query, DS is saying that he cannot go on residential trip, as we suspected would be his response. I’ve asked school for some support in having ELSA talk to him about his worries but they’ve said they don’t have the resource to do this for all children who don’t want to stay away. I’ve also asked if he can attend the residential trip during the day (they are staying somewhere about 20mins away) but that’s also a no. The, otherwise lovely, school are not interested in any dialogue at all to see if we can work through or round this. What should we expect from school in this situation? Has anyone else DC had residential trips in Yr4 and did most attend? Does anyone have any tips for navigating the week if he doesn’t go, or how to help him overcome this fear he has?

How many others qont go and what is the school provision if they dont go? (My later diagnosed asd girl wouldn't do day trips and loved spending a day "helping" in reception.)

It doesnt sound like a little chat with elsa/school would make a lot of difference if he wont stay in a known familiar place with grandparents. He may not be ready - schools round here don't do trips until year 6, will he get another go ?

For us in year 6 it would have needed extra naviagtion (plan of the week, photos, proor visit etc) but that was post diagnosis. She had no behaviour problems but its been a huge help to know it is autism in our case (obviously anxiety is just as valid a reason )

It's only ever booked with a maximum number of places about 70% of the year (three form intake with 60 max residential places available).
We are now y6, but they y4 residential has been delayed until now. There are still spaces available. So I guess a fair proportion don't go.

Is it an indie? Y4 is very young. Mine wouldn't have wanted to go, they're not convinced about the y6 residential in the summer.

Saying no to him attending for days only seems really harsh. I’d want to understand why.

My guess is that as pp said they may have limited spaces available so it’s actually helpful to them if some don’t go

Thanks for your replies, yes you are right I guess if we can’t help him see the benefits in ever staying away then I was probably being too optimistic in thinking others might plant a seed in his thinking.
That’s reassuring to know that in most schools a fair number don’t go, at the moment I don’t know of any other children who aren’t going so I have been getting worried about this aspect. All the parents I’ve spoken to have DC either so excited to go or who aren’t that keen but will go along after a bit of persuasion.
I’ve not heard back about what the provision is for those not attending yet (asked via email last week about that).
And yes there is another residential in year 6.

When I was teaching I went on many residential trips with Yr 6 and Yr 4. There were always a number of children who preferred not to go. They usually had a week full of activities planned for them.
One year the trip was only 30 mins from school and we had one boy whose mother drove him over each morning and collected him after supper. Really don’t understand why the school cannot accommodate something along these lines.

Sorry didn’t answer the question. My DD’s school does a 2 night residential trip in y3 and a 3 night one in y4. Indie prep.

I was very nervous for DD going as she has various difficulties but they were lovely about it. I know another child with medical issues had special provision made. As far as I know pretty much all the DC went, though I wouldn’t necessarily know for sure.

FWIW, if your child isn't ready, don't push the issue. My son crashed out of a 2 night residential in Y5. I knew in my heart that he wasn't ready, but the school insisted. He made himself sick with anxiety during the first night and was promptly sent home the next morning.

However, during the next year he had the opportunity to go on a 4 night residential some 5 hours away from home. He also was apprehensive about the experience, but his teachers that year were brilliant (as were the residential staff at the Outward Bound centre) and very reassuring that they'd support him in any way necessary so he could be a part of the experience with his class. They did, and he had a great time.

My DD’s primary school did not have any residential trips but if they did, my dd would not have gone as she suffered from anxiety and it would have been too stressful for her. And forcing children to do that kind of thing “for their own good” can be quite harmful.

It’s a pity the school will not allow your child to just come for the day.

@itwasntaparty it’s a state school, 2 form intake.
I’m feeling bit more reassured that it’s likely that there will be more children not attending. If I hear back from school re what those not going will be doing on the week then I might ask for an idea of numbers.

My kids went on residential in y5 and y6 and loved them, even DS2 who at nearly 13 still doesn't go on sleepovers.
There were at least 2 children in his class who didn't stay the whole time. 1 was physical health related (I believe). One didn't want to stay overnight and went for one full day, I believe.
I think you either need to book him a place, or not.
He could not go and you could do something special with him, or he could go to school and probably be put in the class below. Have you asked what the children that don't go will be doing?
Or book him a place and discuss with the school what he needs to make it work (nearer the time they might agree to the day trips).
Would he enjoy the daytime activities or would he be better doing something else?

This is going back some years, but I was always the kid who didn't want to be away from home and dreaded a residential trip with the school! I was in a small primary but there was always a handful of us who didn't go - we just did activities at school for the week!
When my DSD was in Yr6, lots of kids in her class didn't go (she did, but I was surprised how many didn't)

I do think it's slightly unfair they won't allow him to attend during the day, given it's only down the road but if he'd feel more comfortable staying at home, I absolutely wouldn't try to encourage it; he won't be alone staying in school!

I think attending daily could well cause a lot of problems for other children. Those that may be feeling a bit wobbly at being away from home, could be really upset by someone being allowed home every night.

Also, there could be problems if you are late dropping him off or collecting (Staff having to stay behind to wait, or activities being delayed). Not saying that you would be late, but of they allow the principle for your DS, then it would need to be available for others which could be hugely disruptive.

If your DS still doesn't like being left for activities, what are the chances that being left for a while day somewhere strange would actually work?

Lots of children wouldn't be ready for a trip like that at that age. I would wait until Y6 and see how is then rather than having a bad experience now which might put him off for many years.

@MrsMariaReynolds thank you to hear about your son’s experience. We would never force DS to go as I just don’t think he could cope with it and I could see that making him worse, he clings on to bad memories and gets upset about them for years. So lovely to read that your DS did go on another trip and enjoyed it.

@minipie

Saying no to him attending for days only seems really harsh. I’d want to understand why.

My guess is that as pp said they may have limited spaces available so it’s actually helpful to them if some don’t go

It's very disruptive & unsettling for the other children, who may have settled fine, but get a bout if homesickness if others are allowed to go home, the same reason calls home are dissuaded on most short residential.

@Puzzlerpuzzled. How much does he want to do the activities they'll be doing?

He'll have to decide whether it's more than he doesn't want to stay or not. His choice.

Personally I'd get an assessment done as I'd handle it differently if he's NT or not. It will also help him in senior school.

As he doesn't have a diagnosis, it's difficult for the school. Especially right now, I expect many of the kids are a bit anxious about staying away from home given a huge chunk of their lives they have been told stay home, stay safe etc. they really can't make exceptions about day visits for one child & not loads of others. Plus it might mean another child missing out on the residential.

My year 4 DD goes on a very similar trip in April. I have to say that almost all the year group go in my experience.
They are 2 hours away so day trips could never be an option. I’m Also not sure how complicated the logistics of some kids only staying for the day could become and might be something that the activities place actually are not prepared to accommodate- it might not just be school being difficult.
The kids that didn’t go had an off timetable week at school.
I would be prepared for there not to be many of them staying at school.
The trouble is, from their perspective, that your son will only be one of (potentially) many kids who are nervous about being away from home. The time and manpower they’ve got to make accommodations for them is limited. I’m surprised they can’t find time for someone to chat to him but at the end of the day the persuasion has to come from you.
I’d be heavily encouraging trying to stay with other trusted people such as his grandparents. I would worry that this just becomes built up into a bigger and bigger deal the longer it goes on.

He's young still. Looking at my daughters Yr class, I could identify a few who wouldn't be ready. 1 or 2 nights maybe.
(I'm slightly jealous though... my Yr6 DD has never had the opportunity for a school residential and unless they are late planners there doesn't appear to be one this year either unless they do the same as last year and camp on the school field...)

Yes, fair point, I hadn’t thought of other children wanting to go home if they see one child being collected.

My year 4 twins wouldn’t want to be away from home for 3 nights and they have each other! It is very young for such a long residential.

I could have written your post OP. Yr4 residential coming up end of march. DS also has anxiety issues and extremely reluctant to spend the night away from home. He is also one of the younger ones is his year.

School contacted me in November and noted I hadn't signed him up. The teacher then had a word with him, told him what it involves, and he agreed to sign up and will see how it goes.

Like you I'm torn. I really want him to go, because I want him to enjoy it and grow in confidence. But I absolutely don't want to force him or make him unhappy. I also think it's important to acknowledge that all children are different and for some 8 years old is too young.

They do have a year 6 residential and I'm minded to work on building his confidence up with that.

I have also thought about taking him for the day, but am thinking that might draw more attention to him than if he didn't go at all.

It is hard though. All DS's close by friends are going and I don't want him to be known as the one that didn't. Buy likewise in the grand scheme of things it's probably not that big a deal?

The added difficulty is covid stopped lots of activities that would have helped build this confidence eg cubs, sleepover.

It would be really nice sharing these issues with others.

Age 8 is a classic age for night time anxiety. It's very young to be away from parents/home for that long. If he doesn't want to go, I wouldn't try to persuade him, that'll just stress him.

I'm very angry on your behalf that the school won't let him just go for the daytime activities. That's a bit of a red flag to me. Why can't they be flexible for an anxious child? Surely it's better for them then having him distressed in the early hours?

Anyway I would say to the school that either he only goes for the daytime or he doesn't go at all, and say you're disappointed that they seem to have zero interest in being flexible for children with anxiety.

Dds school did this. It was a lower school, middle school starts year 5 and I'm sure that's the only reason.
She went as did 95% of class. She coped but saying she enjoyed it would be over the top. She has done weekend Brownie camps and I think 2 nights is plenty tbh.
She did a year six residential ( we moved at tye end of year 4 so she did the last 2 years at primary). She loved every second of it.
Tbh, if you are certain he will hate it, I would just not send him. And stick to it. You have tried. Being forced to do it will just reinforce his feelings of nit being in control.

@Thirtytimesround

Age 8 is a classic age for night time anxiety. It's very young to be away from parents/home for that long. If he doesn't want to go, I wouldn't try to persuade him, that'll just stress him.

I'm very angry on your behalf that the school won't let him just go for the daytime activities. That's a bit of a red flag to me. Why can't they be flexible for an anxious child? Surely it's better for them then having him distressed in the early hours?

Anyway I would say to the school that either he only goes for the daytime or he doesn't go at all, and say you're disappointed that they seem to have zero interest in being flexible for children with anxiety.

Lots of children will be a bit wobbly at being away from home. Seeing someone else getting to go home every night would cause a lot of upset. Totally unfair to expect the school to run a trip where some children, who are trying very hard to be brave, get destabilised. If a child can't stay away from home then they can't go on the trip. The school should make provision for keeping them occupied during that time.

When I was an LSA in Y5, we had about 12 children not going on the residential for varying reasons, and they had a fantastic time! It might be worth asking the school how many children they think won't go and what the plans are for activities with those children.

My Y6 didn't go on hers for similar reasons and she had a whale of a time doing forest school, making jewellery, doing art, watching films etc