donating body to medical science

[vivariumvivariumsvivaria]

Interesting thread about not having a funeral on AIBU. I looked at donating my body but didn't sign up as my children were young and I thought a funeral would be needed for them to put a "hook" on my untimely death.

They are teens now, and know that two of my close relatives donated their bodies - who saw from the war and life what medicine could do and so they wanted to help train the next lot of medics.

I obediently wash my empty tins and sort my plastics and compost - my body is just a natural resource with a value after I'm done with it, so, I see donation to science as just an extension of recycling.

My bereaved relatives had a mixed response to having no funeral - some saw it as "it's his wish, he's doing a good thing" while some, the ones with a strong sense of faith, say they struggled without a service to say "goodbye".

I'm hoping to live a long time yet so I'll need to engineer conversation with my kids - a tricky topic over dinner one night, "hey kids, let's chat about me being dead and the interesting things that can be done with a corpse".

Anyone want to share their reasons for donating their body, or for definitely not wanting to donate their body; or have advice or insights about talking to your teens about your hopefully-not-yet-demise?

link to thread www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4466661-to-think-not-having-a-funeral-is-ok

link to donation page
www.rcseng.ac.uk/about-the-rcs/support-our-work/donate/donate-your-body-to-medical-science/

@saleorbouy

If you are keen to be a donor don't give up!

Pretty much only those of us who die on intensive care are appropriate as organ donors (and only some of those) - that is a very small number of deaths.

But almost everyone can donate corneas. The Co-ordinator told us they had even accepted a donation from a 90 year old so you are never too old.

I've spoken to many patients who felt very strongly that their body had let them down due to cancer or another illness and they were really happy some part of it was still going to be useful to somebody.

I've only been to a few funerals but they were a service at the crematorium with a coffin on a short of table at the front. Presumably if the body was donated it would be exactly the same service just without the coffin, or with an empty one. I can't see how it would make a lot of difference to the actual funeral.

My parents are all signed up with the nearest University. I try not to think about it as I know I’m going to struggle if it happens
My siblings are all fine with it.

@EllaMinnowPee

I used to work in a human dissection room.
Students are supervised at all times and the rules around preservation of even small amounts of dissected tissue are stringent. Everything is kept with the main body for later cremation. It is not disposed of/thrown away and no one is 'twatting about' with bodies unless they want to get thrown off the course.

@AnnaMagnani thanks for your useful info. I'm a registered organ donor (including corneas) on the general register (I've selected the 'any part of my body' option
Do I need to do anything else?

I'm signed up to donate, I'm an atheist so the idea of my body, or even part of it helping someone train is more use than sticking it in the ground.

That is unless I die on a bank holiday - they apparently don't take people on bank holidays

I have more than a few medical conditions that mean I probably won't be suitable for organ donation.

I did watch a fascinating documentary, it's a bit old but should be on YouTube.

It us un New Zealand, I think It starts by interviewing people who intend to donate and who are terminally ill.

Then it follows medical students dissecting the bodies over, I think two years, and then they show the students the films of 'their' body, but as a person.

@SunshineOnKeith - the people around you need to know that you are a cornea donor and that it's really important to you. As basically you will be dead and unable to do anything about it. Often unless you or a family member are highlighting that you want to be a cornea donator nothing will get done outside of ITU which is a real shame.

As soon as you have died or v quickly after, a health professional needs to call the Tissues National Referral Centre and then they organize everything.

You are still going to need an undertaker and a funeral - and if you die at home you need to go to the undertakers for cold storage. However the Centre basically tell everyone what to do.

www.organdonation.nhs.uk/helping-you-to-decide/about-organ-donation/get-the-facts/cornea-donation/

[quote AnnaMagnani]@SunshineOnKeith - the people around you need to know that you are a cornea donor and that it's really important to you. As basically you will be dead and unable to do anything about it. Often unless you or a family member are highlighting that you want to be a cornea donator nothing will get done outside of ITU which is a real shame.

As soon as you have died or v quickly after, a health professional needs to call the Tissues National Referral Centre and then they organize everything.

You are still going to need an undertaker and a funeral - and if you die at home you need to go to the undertakers for cold storage. However the Centre basically tell everyone what to do.

www.organdonation.nhs.uk/helping-you-to-decide/about-organ-donation/get-the-facts/cornea-donation/[/quote]
Thank you, you've been very helpful

Does anyone know if being a live donor precludes you from leaving your body to medical science?

How do you mean?

If you have been an organ donor, no you can't leave to medical science in terms of a medical school as basically everything they would want is gone.

If you have been a cornea donor apparently it is possibly to donate to a brain bank as well according to the Human Tissue Authority website.

However all the people I have met have decided on one or the other and been very passionate about it. Often brain bank donors either have a neurological illness themselves or a family member who has and really want to help research.

Some hospices also ask everyone if they would like to be a cornea donor when they are admitted. Generally people are surprised to find they can and some people decide very late on they would like to, especially those who had an organ donor card and thought they were now not going to be able to be useful.

My mum wanted to do this, but it was what happened when the institute had finished with the body which put her (and me) off. We read that once they had finished with the body, the family are informed and some sort of service could be arranged. For me, that would be dragging up the past and potentially going through the grieving process again years later. Happy to be corrected if I'm wrong, it's something my mum would still like to do as long as the family aren't informed once the body is "finished" with.

@lollipopsandrainbows

My mum wanted to do this, but it was what happened when the institute had finished with the body which put her (and me) off. We read that once they had finished with the body, the family are informed and some sort of service could be arranged. For me, that would be dragging up the past and potentially going through the grieving process again years later. Happy to be corrected if I'm wrong, it's something my mum would still like to do as long as the family aren't informed once the body is "finished" with.

This is what I can't deal with re my parents. It's all signed and agreed now, I even had to sign some of the papers myself but the thought of all that.

I toyed with the idea of donation for a long time and read about the process before I brought it up with DH. For me, it was simply an extension of organ donation which we had already discussed as a couple and as a family.

I'm aware they might not want my body and therefore the family cannot assume there will be no arrangements to make. (As I said on the other thread mentioned, any arrangements are entirely their decision. I don't see it as my position to decide how they choose to remember/grieve me.)

Personally, I see the body as merely a vessel of the life I've led. It, in itself, does not represent me and is not necessary to preserve for 'memories'. I see my choice as way of helping future generations to understand even more about the human body. (If I could leave my brain to help with mental health then I would that too.) I'd much rather doctors, etc. had real bodies to practice on because they're more representative of what to expect than a synthetic version.

In the same way that I have no problem with student Drs and nurses being present for appointments/procedures as they've got to learn somehow and at some point and it can be me.

Once I'd made the decision, we discussed it as a family. Death is not a taboo subject in our house (in fact, nothing is taboo) so it wasn't difficult to raise it with the kids. I think they were around the end of primary/beginning secondary stage and we were talking about organ donation. All of them have joined the organ donation list. It wasn't a difficult conversation but we've taken a very pragmatic approach to such topics.

Don't quote me as I relating 2nd hand as my friend's mum donated her body . She applied many years before she died . You have to live fairly close to a teaching hospital , for example they accepted her from Essex to go to Cambridge.
Once they have done what they need to do , you are given the opportunity to have the remains cremated at and returned to you ( at their cost ) but , they don't have to accept you once you do pass .
My friends mum spent many years saying she wouldn't have a funeral , but when she did die , they didn't actually need her at that time , so the family still had the arraignment of a funeral to do.
I guess the upside of that is you would never know !

When my parents die I just want to arrange a funeral. Not go through all the will the teaching hospital/Uni want their bodies or not.
I know it's their wishes but I really struggle to think about the reality of it all.

ella I have heard that they do a bit. They can still have mine.

Im a bit 🤔 at those saying medical students dont twat about a bit with the bodies - they do a little bit, they're just clever enough not to let anyone see.

I’ve done it.

Birmingham University are getting me when I’m gone.

My husband and older child (19) know, I don’t have any other family.

@Sloughsabigplace

I’ve done it.

Birmingham University are getting me when I’m gone.

My husband and older child (19) know, I don’t have any other family.

That's where my parents are off to.

@Letsallscreamatthesistene

Im a bit 🤔 at those saying medical students dont twat about a bit with the bodies - they do a little bit, they're just clever enough not to let anyone see.

Yes, years ago I had a summer job and worked alongside a young dental student. She was laughing about them throwing bits of people around at each other.

Not U.K. but
www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/dental-students-severed-head-selfies-yale-university-connecticut-university-dentistry-medicine-a8196626.html

I’m also remembering reading, possibly on MN, that medical students used to have to have their own skeleton and this person had their old one up in the loft and wanted suggestions on how to dispose of it as there would be no way to find out who it actually was.
www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-6329131/Medics-told-NOT-sell-real-human-skeletons-online-auction-sites.html

Ahh here it is.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3473560-To-ask-for-your-help-disposing-of-a-skeleton

Yeah it happens. Its just not obvious - they're not winging legs around their heads lasso style

Well this is all making me feel miles better.

@Vavavrrooom
Legislation governing human remains in the UK is entirely different to and much stricter than the USA.
Ditto skeletons in attics from years ago

It's simply not relevant to how uk medical schools treat donations now

Dental students do relatively limited cadaveric dissection so why they'd be throwing bit of people around I have no idea. Especially when such behaviour could easily destroy their career pathway I suggest there's likely an element of black humour/embellishment

I'd suggest rather than scaremongering with hearsay, foreign scandals and historical skeletons, it may be worthwhile instead to share actual factual info from the UK

Sparklingbrook my mother died 12 months ago. She had signed paperwork in 1998 donating her body to medical science/research. When she developed Alzheimers' ten years before he death, she flatly refused to see any of us, so I saw very little of her during that time.

When she died, I was her executor and I went ahead and organised a normal funeral (albeit a highly limited Covid event with very few attendees allowed), and she was cremated. I did not want her body donated. Others can call me selfish if they wish, but my experience of doctors and scientists is mixed and I felt strongly on this matter.

Her GP tried hard to guilt trip me but I stood firm. There was no problem, and the (very good) funeral directors told me that I was perfectly within my rights to do this.

I am immensely glad I did it, and have no regrets at all.

Legislation on human remains in the UK is very tight and totally different to the US - it isn't helpful to compare the two or give stories from 'years ago'.

I had a plastic skeleton from when I was a medical student donkeys years ago which for mysterious reasons came with one real bone.

Due to UK legislation I'd either have to arrange for a funeral for the bone or pass it on free of charge to another person who was using it only for study purposes. Luckily I was able to find a surgeon in training who was studying for his orthopaedic exams so it's gone to a good home.