Why is food in schools so bad the U.K.?

[workwoes123]

This may count as a TAAT but it’s more a thread inspired by a thread .

I’m British, I remember fairly crap school dinners in the 1980s. fizzy juice on tap, chips most days. But that was 30 years and an obesity crisis ago.

I live in France now and my kids are in french schools. There are no snacks, no breakfasts, no vending machines, no play pieces. School dinner is a salad starter, a main course with meat / fish / chicken plus veg and carbs, followed by cheese / yoghurt and fruit / occasional dessert. That’s it, for a school day that starts at 8am and finishes at 4:30pm. Today the menu was:

Green salad / tomato pasta salad / beetroot salad
Beef stew / cod in curry sauce with mashed potatoes and mixed vegetables
Cheese or yoghurt
Fruit or isles flottantes (meringue on custard).

I’ve just been on a thread where children in a U.K. secondary school are being offered chocolate croissants for breakfast, bacon / sausage sarnies as a snack (a snack!), iced buns as an afternoon snack. Is this normal? All of this is in addition to a the actual school lunch? Why are the children so hungry that they need snacks as well as a meal?

Did Jamie Oliver not sort all this out? I had this vague idea that school food in the U.K. had improved since I were a lass - has it?

It's not even like a bit of salt is unhealthy for most people anyway. Salt has been unfairly demonised and has caused people to unnecessarily avoid properly seasoning otherwise healthy food while at the same time giving poor quality processed food that has far more salt in it the green light

A few years ago a journalist did a documentary, where she swapped her usual food fir diet/low fat/low salt/low sugar healthy versions.

The result being the food was far less satisfying and actually more ended up being consumed because of continuing eating searching fir that same satisfaction, amd a mis conception that as it was healthier u could get away with eating nore of it.

She ended up gaining a few pounds.

You are far better off with a balanced array over the week of smaller portions of or sensible portions of food that hasn't been mucked about with in order to replace the sugar salt or fat. Than attempting to fill them up with the massive block of sugar free sponge that's basically nutritionally worthless

@Snowisfallinghere great attitude

My colleague was complaining that her 10 year old always came home from school
Hungry. Apparently her luck was a slice of pizza and some garlic bread.

How can any catering company possibly be making ‘huge profits’ when they are only charging £2.20 per meal? Yes, the food is bought for less than that, but they also have to pay for it to be cooked and served.

Part of the problem here that no one wants to acknowledge is that parents are hugely entitled and don’t think they should pay for school meals. I know this for a fact, as I own a nursery and I struggle more than anything else to get parents whose kids do 15 or 30 ‘free’ hours only to pay for food. They just won’t pay - they think it should be free. It is in schools after all - up to Year 6 in Southwark, according to this thread.

Well, the bottom line here parents is that nothing in life is free. Everything costs money, and that’s why you get child benefit - to feed your kids. If you want better quality food in schools, you should be prepared to use some of your child allowance to pay for it. That would improve the quality, but I bet most people would rather leave things as they are.

And no, I don’t agree that £2.20 is all that most families can afford. Even the families ‘living in poverty’ whose older kids get free school lunches, but who ‘can’t afford to pay’ for the nursery lunches I end up paying for come in carrying coffee cups and eating croissants from Starbucks every morning.

It's partly lack of proper funding - there simply isn't enough money to provide good food. It's also cultural attitudes. As a food lover myself, I hate to say that many people in this country eat an atrocious diet. Way too much processed foods, junk foods, sugary carbs etc. I've lived abroad several times and always noticed that in other countries even the poorest people eat good, nutritious food. Vegetable stews etc made with lots of healthy ingredients.

I’m interested to know whether food in French hospitals is as good as food in French schools?

Adults seem to be convinced (by their kids) that they cannot eat anything other than beige food.
Jamie Oliver tried and we went bonkers at him.
Sometimes I do this for a quiet life. The attraction of beige food is too great. We are just not snobbish enough here!

I work in a secondary school as a second chef ( via agency ) and have been there six months.

All main meals are cooked from scratch, fresh meat, no bought in sauces, fresh vegetables. Meat and vegetarian options available every day.
They also offer a daily pasta pot, again the sauce is made fresh. Other options are available on the hot section, usually grab-and-go stuff like pizza slice, bacon muffin, chicken burger, etc ....
The cold section is made up of filled baguettes/wraps/sub rolls most with salad included, plus a range of cold desserts like yoghurt, fresh fruit or cheesecake. There are also slices of melon, raisins and other dried fruit in pots.
There is a selection of cakes/cookies available every day.

It's a reasonable selection, but some of the healthier items seem to be just there for display. It's a bit of a suprise if any of the yoghurts/fresh fruit actually sells or needs topping up.

We go through around 25 hot main meals a day, plus around 8 of the vegetarian main.

The kids get two break times, one of 30 minutes and a second one of 20 minutes.

Everything is served on disposables and wooden cutlery is used ( this is mainly influenced by the school and their COVID/post lockdown rules, not the catering companies decision......the school I work at had all the plates/cutlery wrapped in clingfilm in the stores, for when it's decided to use again )

It's not a bad selection of food, but it's not up to the catering department what the children choose to eat, or how long they get to do so.

They're young, and if they're offered a pizza slice or a freshly cooked roast dinner........the majority will go for the pizza. Likewise with a chocolate chip cookie or a slice of fresh watermelon.

It's what they do, I bet most would have done the same at that age ( if we had the choice, I didn't when I was at school 😆 )

There are many factors into why different schools offer different things, could be equipment/staff skills/staffing levels/supplier issues..........

Not quite sure what I was trying to say......I'm sure there was a point at the beginning......but I'm 57, had a gin and now forgotten 😆😆

I now work in nursery and the children eat very healthy while there.
A typical day would be ....
Toast ( brown) and butter
Lamb keema and brown rice.
Natural full fat plain yogurt
Veg sticks
Soup and bread and butter
Fruit
Milk to drink with breakfast and tea, water all other times.
The meat is ordered from the local butcher and the milkman brings the milk and yoghurt from the local farm.

Can talk

Ignore my last message. Wrong page!

I'm in France and I can believe many children in the UK wouldn't eat what French schools offer. I was discussing menus with some British friends, and pretty much all my dinners were met with 'oh no, my children would never eat that'. Honestly nothing scary, I suggested various roasted veggies, stir fry, that type of food - all eaten my my own DC, and I thought they were picky.

But I'm not sure what is the cause and what the effect here. French nurseries offer the same food and kids go to school when they're 3. All school dinners are like that - first green salad, then a healthy dish followed by a piece of cheese and fruit/yogurt. Just checked next week's menu - nothing deep fried, no chips or nuggets, no sweet puddings or cakes.

So kids get used to eating like that. I'm sure there would be complaints if they had chips and nuggets and those were suddenly swapped for salads, but the former has never been an option.

My kids were at a bog standard council nursery in France. They had their own chef who made fresh purée on the premises daily for the babies, with flavours like fennel and beetroot. The Christmas menu was a sight to behold, a proper four-course affair. It was brilliant.

@FunkyPhantom, What happens to all the left over food that the kids won’t eat?

Common sense would suggest that this is main problem. The caterers are being forced to offer food that no one chooses, hence at least half the cost going down a black hole of waste. They don’t give the kids any choice in France, according to this thread, so more money is available for the food that is offered.

It’s like everything else in education - no common sense at all. Anyway, there’s the answer. Stop wasting money on food options that no one chooses and provide better quality meals where the choice is take it or leave it.

They also don't cater for vegetarians (a non-meat option is available, but it's usually fish), halal, no pork diets, etc.

This varies by region. Areas with a large Muslim population will offer a non-pork menu and lots of places do regular vegetarian meals too.

@workwoes123

Sadly it’s normal in the 3 secondary schools Ive worked in.

Last week my kid in reception had:
Pizza
All day breakfast
Fish fingers
Burger
Sandwich

Our school does fantastic, healthy hot dinners at £4.75 a pop. We also have a cafe hatch that sells sausage rolls/bacon sarnies/muffins/hot chocolate etc etc for between £1-2. No prizes for guessing what most kids go for!

@ViceLikeBlip

Our school does fantastic, healthy hot dinners at £4.75 a pop. We also have a cafe hatch that sells sausage rolls/bacon sarnies/muffins/hot chocolate etc etc for between £1-2. No prizes for guessing what most kids go for!

£4.75 is very expensive for a school dinner

@EYProvider

Leftover food is thrown away, it's a tricky task trying to work out how many of each choice to provide, but there will be wastage every day. That's unavoidable.

It's the same choices for both breaks and I'm not sure how the school decides who comes in first to the canteen. Obviously those that come in late might not have every item on offer, but if it's the first break we will always offer to have one reserved for them for the second break.

They should just take away the choices. It would resolve the issues of cost and health in one go. However, parents wouldn’t go for it. There would always be a reason why their kids couldn’t eat what was on offer.

French parents are a lot less indulgent in my experience, hence the reason their kids are healthier and better behaved.

@Aroundtheworldin80moves

There is a compromise between bacon sandwiches and not catering for allergies and dietary needs, while allowing children to have a choice in what they like and don't like (to take the salad example... one of mine would happily eat cucumber lettuce, peppers, sweetcorn, radishes etc but not touch tomato... is there really any benefit forcing her to eat the only vegetable she doesn't like? The distaste includes stuff like ketchup incidentally, although tomato based pasta sauces are manageable).

I don't think its fair to blame schools for obesity though... a lot of the blame lies with food poverty and lack of education around nutrition and portion sizes.

I agree with this totally.

I am very pro healthy eating, but forcing someone to eat something or giving them nothing at all smacks of control and never works for anyone.
There needs to be a huge cultural change and more money spent.

@Lady1576 that is so true

But it works in France, @BodgertheJogger.

And all spending more money will do is increase waste, as the kids are not choosing the healthier options. It’s an obscene waste of public funds, spending money on food that ends up getting thrown away because kids are allowed to choose between eating vegetables and sweets to put it frankly.

Why are school meals in France better? Because the French have more sense than to give them that choice.

Why do children need a pudding with their dinner? Glad I don't have kids as by the way the school dimmer system works I'd be complaining at the school daily