Why is food in schools so bad the U.K.?

[workwoes123]

This may count as a TAAT but it’s more a thread inspired by a thread .

I’m British, I remember fairly crap school dinners in the 1980s. fizzy juice on tap, chips most days. But that was 30 years and an obesity crisis ago.

I live in France now and my kids are in french schools. There are no snacks, no breakfasts, no vending machines, no play pieces. School dinner is a salad starter, a main course with meat / fish / chicken plus veg and carbs, followed by cheese / yoghurt and fruit / occasional dessert. That’s it, for a school day that starts at 8am and finishes at 4:30pm. Today the menu was:

Green salad / tomato pasta salad / beetroot salad
Beef stew / cod in curry sauce with mashed potatoes and mixed vegetables
Cheese or yoghurt
Fruit or isles flottantes (meringue on custard).

I’ve just been on a thread where children in a U.K. secondary school are being offered chocolate croissants for breakfast, bacon / sausage sarnies as a snack (a snack!), iced buns as an afternoon snack. Is this normal? All of this is in addition to a the actual school lunch? Why are the children so hungry that they need snacks as well as a meal?

Did Jamie Oliver not sort all this out? I had this vague idea that school food in the U.K. had improved since I were a lass - has it?

I just don't see how we can expect vege, fussy kid friendly , halal, non halal jacket potato and sandwich option complete with bread butter and yogurt for 2 quid. Its jusy not doable is it. Not to any kind.of standard.

Most of the "need" for these options is snobbery or ignorance half the time anyway. I mean u pay 2 quid fir a meal containing the cheapest lowest standard meat available then suddenly care avuut the last 30 seconds if the animals life by refusing to have the halal option.

Or you have cereal for breakfast , fruit fir snack, cheese and tomato pizza akd garlic bread for dinner essentially eating vege all day then complain your kid had to have the vege option at school. I mean it makes no else really. Just do 1 and do it well

There is no 'universally acceptable meal' though. Because people are different.

You could have a system where there is just one meal a day, announced in advance, and anyone who can't have it or doesn't like it should bring a packed lunch on that day, but that's not really fair on parents getting free school meals.

These are the next three weeks at my sons school, they have a salad bar available daily, it wasn’t being used so now you have the option of a salad bowl when you order your childs meals and they put small bowls of salad on the childrens tables.

Yes all people are different. But 2 if the dishes are usually the same anyway just different versions of the same meat.

And if you removed the 3 chunks of chicken from the pasta bake it would be the same as the vege version served.

Forgot the pictures.

You could have a system where there is just one meal a day, announced in advance, and anyone who can't have it or doesn't like it should bring a packed lunch on that day, but that's not really fair on parents getting free school meals.

lol this is exactly the system in place in France 😂 except that packed lunches are not allowed so parents on low incomes don’t lose out. Every one eats the same, whether they are paying full price or virtually nothing. Like I say, choice and catering for individual tastes / beliefs / preferences really isn’t seen as a priority here. (I agree that this isn’t universally a good thing, but it does make catering in schools a lot easier to manage!).

It starts so early, too. When my DC started at playgroup (one registered with the LA and eligible for EY funding) I asked the manager if they had a healthy eating policy. Oh yes, she said. We usually have fruit and something savoury like crackers for morning snack. It was for 3 hours only, so I thought anything more than fruit was a bit unnecessary but OK. Except...snacks are provided by parents operating on a rota and the healthy eating policy is purely nominal. Gems my DC have come back proudly announcing they've eaten "for snack" included but are not limited to: gingerbread men, iced gems, mince pies, those incredibly cheap chocolate wafer biscuits... Almost every week someone has a birthday and is encouraged to bring in birthday cake - usually a big ultra processed supermarket cake covered in buttercream or similar. And that's before we get to the parties and celebrations (Halloween party, Christmas party, Easter party, end of year party etc) which are basically a free for all of utter junk, all parent provided: chocolate, crisps, cake, again all of it shop bought and ultra processed with the leftovers providing the basis for "snack" for days afterwards. A particular highlight was the entire box full of Krispy Kreme doughnuts one mother provided as her contribution to the party food on one occasion. This is the diet considered suitable for 2-5 year olds in an early years setting.

Yes - not allowing packed lunches actually makes it a very different system. 'You must have this and nothing else' versus 'this is the meal today, have it or bring something else you'd prefer'.

A free meal is no good if your child can't or won't eat it.

It does sound like offering so much choice is an issue and a putup-shutup-eatup policy makes it easier to organise. No menu is going to please everyone. That's important to acknowledge as some posters seem keen to lionise the French system without acknowledging its dark side. At worst, it sounds almost like some kind of cultural power trip in stamping out individual ethical and religious choices.
I wouldn't want my DC education to be contingent on eating food I disagree with and am happy to make the food myself.
It's funny, Australia doesn't have school dinners and we all make lunches before work. There must be some element of cultural expectation. It's a PITA, but I've always just done it. Everyone does. Although some DC just have lunchboxes full of snackfood, especially in middle school.

I’m not sure how children could eat a three course meal in the 30 minutes many of them have for lunch. In a larger school, whether primary or secondary, there is, of necessity, a queue, which cuts even further into the crime. Often primary children want time to go out and play too, although their lunchtime will probably be longer than 30 minutes.

I have no idea why Jamie Oliver’s ideas weren’t maintained. Or James Martin’s, when he tried to revolutionise hospital food. Money, willingness to change, time constraints ? Who knows?

Isles flottantes sounds like lots of sugar though.

I have no idea why Jamie Oliver’s ideas weren’t maintained. Or James Martin’s, when he tried to revolutionise hospital food. Money, willingness to change, time constraints ? Who knows?

The American one, well some of the difficulty was down to obscure rules that somehow meant a stir-fry with 7 different types of vegetables was deemed not to meet requirements but pizza chips and the salad bar provided but not compulsory somehow did. The potatoes being counted as veg

As a secondary school teacher I’ve seen a variety of things in different uk schools. First school: amazing, delicious & healthy proper main meal and pasta bar as an alternative. Some snacks sold too. Second school - super healthy to the point that I was scratching around trying to find anything mildly enjoyable snackwise - not a
Pudding or chocolate bar in sight. Last two schools: mediocre main meal - depends on the day - nice roast etc but quite small portions. But this is surrounded by snack options and most kids just go for a bacon roll or pizza slice or chips. I’d not be motivated to make a proper dinner if it just gets passed by in favour of the beige crap! So yes I think the problem is the sheer amount of snacks served, which mean 90% kids will choose those, especially as they are easier to carry around. Not many children want to sit down and commit to a proper plate of food when their friends have lunchboxes or are just having a snack. Have worked in schools in France and can confirm it is amazing but wouldn’t work with the set up here. Took a school trip to France and the cafeteria staff were shocked at the fussiness of the English children. Looking on social media though, if you encourage children to eat what’s on their plate, you are setting them up for a lifetime of eating disorders?!? France must be overflowing with eating disorders and we must be the (most mentally) healthy nation on earth, along with the US where most of the advice seems to originate from.

@Undertheoldlindentree

DC at secondary school. FSM. No menu available for parents to view, can only see choices made afterwards, in an app.

Lunchtimes are short and staggered so if a 1.30pm break (I'm told), there's not much choice left.

2 different types of cheese and tomato pizza available. One at break, one at lunch. My child often has both in one day .
As an alternative will pick a cheese and tomato panini (same thing).
Occasionally chicken burger or tuna baguette.
Once in a blue moon fish and chips on a Friday.
Occasional iced bun, toasted teacake or butterscotch tart,

It's total rubbish. Suspect there are better alternatives but not chosen by my D.C

Yeah, same here. DD seems to live off sausage rolls, egg mayo sandwiches and cookies with the occasional fruit pot.

Doesn't like to use the main lunch hall because it's really busy and chaotic (year 7, coming from a small village primary to a 6 form entry secondary) and she's really shy, so uses the snack shack and there isn't much choice. I should really send her with a packed lunch, but she gets FSM.

@Foxyloxy1plus1

I’m not sure how children could eat a three course meal in the 30 minutes many of them have for lunch. In a larger school, whether primary or secondary, there is, of necessity, a queue, which cuts even further into the crime. Often primary children want time to go out and play too, although their lunchtime will probably be longer than 30 minutes.

I have no idea why Jamie Oliver’s ideas weren’t maintained. Or James Martin’s, when he tried to revolutionise hospital food. Money, willingness to change, time constraints ? Who knows?

Isles flottantes sounds like lots of sugar though.

Isles flottantes is a lot of sugar but that’s the problem. Here there’s this culture that some people will moan about isles flottantes (which comes after two types of salad, some unprocessed meat and two vegetable sides). Whilst in reality most children are subsisting on a pizza slice (which isn’t even a proper slice of pizza - just half a bun with some tomato purée and the cheapest budget cheese available) every day of their lives. No sense of balance or enjoying delicious things in moderation.

My dc have packed lunch and not overly healthy but the rest of their food for the day is and they’re very active - all healthy weights. School dinners are okay and include veg but in Year 6 very few have them. Most parents say there’s not enough food for year 6 dc - I’m rather surprised by the portions people give their dc.

Doesn't like to use the main lunch hall because it's really busy and chaotic (year 7, coming from a small village primary to a 6 form entry secondary) and she's really shy, so uses the snack shack and there isn't much choice. I should really send her with a packed lunch, but she gets FSM.

I used to feel the same about using the main dining hall at school, I'm not sure on the solution but it's a shame.

My secondary has healthy options but I used to choose spaghetti (plain) with a sausage roll and at break I’d have a chocolate doughnut every day… I’m not over weight.

@RagzRebooted

What is a snack shack? Is this in school or a shop she goes to outside ? My mind is being boggled again.

What is a snack shack? Is this in school or a shop she goes to outside ? My mind is being boggled again.

I'm assuming it's their version of our ' tuck shop' which was a shop inside school grounds that sold treats.

I was a cook at a secondary school and in all honesty the children just won't pick the healthy option. Okay, then get rid of all the other options. If they don't like it, tough shit. Honestly, it's ridiculous. Children don't NEED chips, nuggets, crap American style pizza slices etc. We shouldn't pander to fussy eating and shitty diets passed on by incompetent parents.

There is no 'universally acceptable meal' though. Because people are different.

Okay, then get rid of all the other options. If they don't like it, tough shit.

People were different when I was at school. Only one meal option was offered, and eaten.

@EvaLution

Absolutely, they are normal foods / cooking. I usually add a little salt, but not much. Desserts, when they are available, are normal recipes - no sweeteners or other sugar replacements. pretty too small portions though that’s normal here. The key thing though is that the desserts are the only sweet thing on offer all day in the school - there are no tuck shops / snack shacks , no snacks on offer, no vending machines.

The lack of salt is very misguided. Fresh cooked, otherwise healthy, food with no salt doesn't taste very nice. Properly seasoned fresh cooked food has far less salt than processed food like nuggets, beans, processed potato or even foods like ham or cheese and bread.

It's not even like a bit of salt is unhealthy for most people anyway. Salt has been unfairly demonised and has caused people to unnecessarily avoid properly seasoning otherwise healthy food while at the same time giving poor quality processed food that has far more salt in it the green light.

@BarbaraofSeville

The lack of salt is very misguided. Fresh cooked, otherwise healthy, food with no salt doesn't taste very nice. Properly seasoned fresh cooked food has far less salt than processed food like nuggets, beans, processed potato or even foods like ham or cheese and bread.

It's not even like a bit of salt is unhealthy for most people anyway. Salt has been unfairly demonised and has caused people to unnecessarily avoid properly seasoning otherwise healthy food while at the same time giving poor quality processed food that has far more salt in it the green light.

I found I love tomatoes with a bit of salt on. And salad in general So I put a bit of posh sea salt on both and happily eat them. Better than KFC!

@Snowisfallinghere

I was a cook at a secondary school and in all honesty the children just won't pick the healthy option. Okay, then get rid of all the other options. If they don't like it, tough shit. Honestly, it's ridiculous. Children don't NEED chips, nuggets, crap American style pizza slices etc. We shouldn't pander to fussy eating and shitty diets passed on by incompetent parents.

I didn’t like anything on offer at my secondary school, I was unable to eat the other things due to containing dairy. So I just didn’t eat at school, I was FSM, I’m also a type one diabetic.

Adults don’t need alcohol, any drink but water, any food but vegetables, fruit and potatoes without any form of seasoning. I’m fairly sure you don’t just drink water and eat plain veg.