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My son won't go to school.. im in shit for it

427 replies

Notoschool · 25/01/2022 10:31

My son is 14. He's been refusing school since around September. He's probably been 5 or 6 times since. He gives lots of different reasons such as he does not like the teacher . Or he feels anxious in the class. He hates the lesson. His reasons seem to change.

He has been self harming by cutting himself. He's been offered counselling at school.but as hes not going to school that's not happening. We have asked for help from camhs that was refused. So we have appealed. We found another counselling/support service for young people they are giving him 3 sessions. And that ends. As they are reducing their services. At the moment we have some support from early help but apparently that comes to a close in around 3 weeks.

My son has been very aggressive to the point he scares me. He's done things like smash up the doors in the house put holes in a partition wall. He's also verbally aggressive.

Recently the school offered him part time time table. To start at 11.15 . He agreed with this . Apart from the Monday where he wanted to start at lunchtime. The school refused this . But I really stood up for ds . As I thought this was better than not going at all. I agree its not right but surely a step in the right direction. His body language had changed and his tone. I really thought he was going to do it . So he went to school on the Friday. Come Monday He's refusing again I actually agued his point with the school so now it's made me look really bad and now he's made it impossible for me to have any valued say in a meeting that's going to happen in a few days.

Hes always asking for money to top his phone up. For food when he's out. Or just general things that teens often want . He wanted money Friday. I said once I know your at school I will transfer you money. Then on Tuesday as long as you have been to school on the Monday and Tuesday. I will top up your phone. But he did not stick to this agreement. So I have not topped up his phone. He told me how selfish I am . And said to me things like: "you only have to do a simple thing. It's like you want me to cut." He has said several similar things.

I'm actually frightened that because I'm refusing to give him money or top up his phone he's going to become very aggressive later on.

The school have told me there is going to be a meeting the local authorities will be there. I have been told I can get a large fine. Could get a tag or even go to prison . My son has told me he does not care. I'm told the law says its my responsibility to get him to school but no one can actually tell me how I can get him in school. He's 14 and 6ft tall I can't physically get him there.

I'm really scared of this whole situation. But I feel totally trapped in the situation and don't know what to do. My son just won't engage.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
6
GlassRaven · 25/01/2022 16:41

@StepAwayFromGoogling perhaps step away from offering your advice on this one.

wherestheremotenow · 25/01/2022 16:52

[quote Ellie56]@Notoschool

The school (and some posters on here ) sound spectacularly unhelpful.

Clearly something is not right here. “Special educational needs” also includes social, emotional and mental health needs. Your child does not need to be struggling academically in order to access SEN support.

www.ipsea.org.uk/school-anxiety

I would request an EHC Needs assessment citing the anxiety, self harm, school refusal and any other MH issues.

Use the Model Letter here:

www.ipsea.org.uk/making-a-request-for-an-ehc-needs-assessment

Under Section 19 of the Education Act 1996, if your child cannot attend school, the LA has a legal duty to secure suitable, full-time alternative education for those children of compulsory school age who, by reason of illness, exclusion or otherwise, may not for any period receive suitable education unless such arrangements are made for them.

Information how to do this here:
www.ipsea.org.uk/getting-temporary-education-put-in-place

The LA should have regard to this statutory guidance:

assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/941900/health_needs_guidance_accessible.pdf

Also note what to do if the LA fails to make suitable alternative arrangements. The Courts and the Local Government Ombudsman have repeatedly highlighted the LA duty to provide alternative education.

I would also go back to the GP, explain all the difficulties and ask if your son can be signed off sick and/or re-referred to CAMHS.

You may also find it useful to get in touch with Youngminds, the children’s mental health charity - youngminds.org.uk/

They have lots of resources on their website and also run a helpline for parents. I have also heard that they provide counselling for young people.

Good luck. Flowers[/quote]
All of this! Good luck. Be strong. You can do this x

Blackopal · 25/01/2022 17:03

You have my total sympathy.
I was your child and refused school. My parents tried everything (they were actually both in education and the situation was professionally embarrassing for them both).

Nothing they did could make me go. The reason was I was so unhappy and anxious at school I basically coiled into myself and withdrew from everything.

I was helped as I was allowed to attend a different setting, something called an education centre with a totally different approach.
I just checked and mine is still running so they still exist. Maybe you could look into a different setting for him? The staff are trained to deal with troubled teenagers with humour, persistence and skill.

I know this time must be so scary and hard on you. I was working full time at 16 and have not carried on 'life refusing'. I am also very close to my parents.
This will pass Op and you will all get through Flowers

wherestheremotenow · 25/01/2022 17:11

Re the EHCPNA evidence - start to create it today. You can keep a diary of incidents and refusals - not very detailed but with enough info to paint a picture. Follow up all calls with school with an email. Create a paper trail of everything. Keep letters of meetings. Any submissions made to CAMHs/drs etc.
Dig out any old emails which raise concerns or any school reports.
You can do a Subject Access Request to school to get everything they have to see if any of it is useful evidences

I essentially did an audit for 1 month showing how frequently we were having incidents getting him to school.

The LA will likely refuse however you appeal and only need to convince the tribunal. They consider whether he 'may have SEN' and 'May need a plan'. You don't need loads for this. Your main evidence is his attendance record. But start a paper trail showing the mental health issues now. By the time you get to appeal you'll have what you need. Once you've had the assessment you'll have further evidence.

IPSEA is your friend for the EHCP bit and join some EHCP Facebook groups.

They refused my son a needs assessment and then a plan but I eventually got the plan he needed. It takes a long time with appeals so apply asap.

itsgettingweird · 25/01/2022 17:43

Yes they refused my sons assessment of needs.

Arguing his needs could be met in school.

4 hours this tribunal lasted.

At the time it started my ds wasn't in school. On a trial at another through managed move which they extended so didn't have any secure place.

Before we went in the judge asked the La if due to change in circumstances they'd like to change their minds.

They said no. He rolled his eyes (I think he was trying to be subtle!).

I spoke for 15 minutes of the whole thing.

Yet I won.

All I had to repeat was "he needs an assessment. He may need a plan because so far 2 schools haven't been able to provide what he needs and he might not have a school place in 5 weeks if this trial fails"

Don't get wrapped up in long wordy arguments. Stick to policy and the points of policy you want to prove.

Your case is identical. School cannot meet his needs and what they've tried hasn't helped. This maybe because his needs aren't yet understood and only an assessment can identify these.

Your evidence for this is that everything you've tried has failed even though he's been willing to give them a try. So they aren't giving him what he needs rather than refusal to engage.

StaplesCorner · 25/01/2022 17:47

You've had some good advice on here OP, there are so many people in the same boat - young people's mental health is in the toilet. My DD is nearly 19 she stopped attending in year 10, little did we know she had a serious mental illness and is now under a specialist psychiatrist. But whilst she was still registered with the school they made my life hell. NotFineInSchool saved my life literally! others have suggested IPSEA and hopefully SOSSEN - these people can help you, tried and tested, get on the phone or book an online appointment and get advice - school is gaslighting you.

BTW only the local education welfare officer can sanction legal action, so I rang her direct and said please help me I can't cope and she put a hold on all action pending a diagnosis.

lifeturnsonadime · 25/01/2022 18:04

@oakleaffy

“Him smashing things and intimidating you is not on and you need help from someone to deal with this. If you have any male relatives whom he respects, they could have words with him, or else try to find a male social worker or counsellor. The boy knows he is behaving badly and it has to stop.“

Agree completely.
People are ignoring this and concentrating on the school refusing, but the violence and intimidation of his mum is far more of an issue.

School failure can be put right later on, when the teen wants to go to college and get qualified in whatever interests them, but violence is a serious problem that does need addressing.

No one wants to work with an aggressive colleague, and even self employed people have to be even tempered with difficult clients.
The behaviour, not the school refusing is the biggest issue here.

Treating the behaviour as disconnected to the school issue is absurd.

Behaviour is a form of communication.

If school wasn't in the mix the behaviour most likely wouldn't be happening.

I speak from experience.

This child's behaviour in the context of the whole situation, doesn't mean that they are going to be an aggressive adult. At all.

JSL52 · 25/01/2022 18:07

@StepAwayFromGoogling

You do sound like you've been enabling his behaviour. Surely you shove him out the door with his achool clothes and tell him to get to school? You don't let him loaf about in the house all day. And you've still been giving him money to go out and top up his phone? So what have the consequences for him not going to school been up to now?
How would you get him up and dressed ?
SunshineOnKeith · 25/01/2022 19:36

Right and when he smashes up my house. Scares the the fuck out of the other children. To the point dd is sobbing I'm scared he's going to hurt you. And then being that he's over 6ft how am I doing all this. Why the hell would I put my other children through that

Well if he's behaving like that you need to phone the police. Not give him money.
If he's refusing to engage with support and abusing you and your children then you have a duty to protect them, not to keep trying to appease their abuser

Notoschool · 25/01/2022 19:52

@SunshineOnKeith

Right and when he smashes up my house. Scares the the fuck out of the other children. To the point dd is sobbing I'm scared he's going to hurt you. And then being that he's over 6ft how am I doing all this. Why the hell would I put my other children through that

Well if he's behaving like that you need to phone the police. Not give him money.
If he's refusing to engage with support and abusing you and your children then you have a duty to protect them, not to keep trying to appease their abuser

You think he does this then I hand him over money Hmm

Call the police? I did one they tool over 6 hrs to come.

Protect the children I'm doing this by not baiting him. Early help are involved so they know the situation.

Now if it was all as simple as you seem to imply i would not be in this situation

OP posts:
oakleaffy · 25/01/2022 19:57

@SunshineOnKeith

Right and when he smashes up my house. Scares the the fuck out of the other children. To the point dd is sobbing I'm scared he's going to hurt you. And then being that he's over 6ft how am I doing all this. Why the hell would I put my other children through that

Well if he's behaving like that you need to phone the police. Not give him money.
If he's refusing to engage with support and abusing you and your children then you have a duty to protect them, not to keep trying to appease their abuser

This is why I suggested phoning the police- as others have. Making a mother and a sister fear for their home and safety is just not on.

He does it because he can, and no one will stand up to him and say “Enough!” Stop trashing the house and it’s your house too- enough!”

The money thing “ Or I might do this or that and cut myself”
This is manipulative behaviour.

If a teenager is out of control, putting women in fear for their safety, it surely is a police matter?

A large strong teenager knows he can terrify his mum and sister, and it’s not on.

itsgettingweird · 25/01/2022 20:04

What people need to understand is that the police do not great children being violent as domestic violence.

They don't attend immediately for things like this.

Especially where MH or send are concerned it's just viewed differently. They'll offer referrals to SS. You'll be lucky to meet the threshold for support until someone is actually injured.

It's all very well telling a mum to do x y and z but it's actually quite insulting people assume they haven't already because what they think should happen hasn't.

Plus if you are being physically threatened and police don't come - what would you do? Get hurt or give them what they are threatening for?

If you were mugged in the street would you fight to hold onto your handbag or give it up for your own safety?

Sometimes you have to do what's right there and then for the safety of everyone involved and it maybe not what's right long term.

The issue is what's needed long term isn't being provided for the family.

Not is being threatened in her own home and then threatened by the very people she needs to support her because of the threats she's receiving at home to try and comply with their threats.

It's a never ending cycle of blaming the parent and wanting compliance rather than trying to get to the route cause if the issues and working to solve it from there.

Notoschool · 25/01/2022 20:04

Thank you for everyone support. I have joined the fb group that people suggested. And I just said what i did on here and added a few bits that I thought might make things more clear . I'm also going to look at the other suggestions people on here have pointed out.

So in a few days there is a meeting with the school I want to write down any questions and suggestions that might help. Could anyone help me with them?

One question /concern I do have is what if ds does not engage ?

Also when they offered the part time placement it was only for 3 weeks . I don't think this is anywhere long enough to try and turn things around.

OP posts:
itsgettingweird · 25/01/2022 20:23

Can you ask ds what he wants or needs and take that to the meeting?

Explain you are on his side and will fight for him. Then at the meeting say if he can't manage to comply completely from day 1 you want assurance they will strike the record clean and encourage him to try.

The problems you have when 1 failure is made a deal of is the willingness to try dwindles. What's the point of trying if people only notice when you fail?

Hopefully you can ds can come up with something he feel able to engage with.

Ask them how they'll be meeting his needs of being medically unable to attend school due to his MH. Mention the self harm as evidence of this. Refuse to accept that a diagnosis doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Just that you've not been able to access camhs yet for a diagnosis or support. And they need to support this and help you get access.

Remind them that they have a legal duty to provide alternatives as he's been medically unable to attend due to MH for more than 15 days now.

Read up on all the links and law we've provided. Have the bullet points clearly written down with your own notes alongside them.
Make it very obvious you know yours and ds rights and expect them to exercise their duty of care and meet these.

You will have to accept this takes time but don't be wishy washy about it that they think they can take time - just accept when they do help it won't happen overnight!

Ask about online tutors. Online learning. Online counselling. When they say no to anything out the ballin their court.
"You have a duty of care to provide X. Why can't it be done in a way my ds can access it?". Then silence. Wait for them to answer.

Often the least said the better and the only things you say are to ask them how they'll support ds the way they have a duty to.

If they reiterate threat of prison etc do what I did. I said I'd be more than happy to stand in court and let a judge decide if I'd failed ds as a um with all my evidence. (But at this point I had email trails I knew no one wanted made public Grin).

If the woman talks over you and interrupts stop talking. When she's finished say "thankyou for that input. Now as I was saying and start again". Don't let them throw you off tangent. Get what you want to say out there.

You'll do great. You have a whole army of MNers here who will help you through this. You just have to put your fingers over your ears and lalala to those judgemental ones Wink

SunshineOnKeith · 25/01/2022 20:53

Protect the children I'm doing this by not baiting him

No one suggested you should 'bait him' Confused
But clear boundaries are important for security, and you've already suggested that he manipulates and threatens you. His behaviour gets him what he wants, so why would he change it?
It works for him. There's zero incentive for him to change and zero consequences when he's out of line.

He needs to know his behaviour is unacceptable and if he continues to be abusive then perhaps SS etc is an appropriate option to protect your other children from his behaviour

OnlyTheTitosaurusOfTheIceberg · 25/01/2022 21:05

OP, this is a longshot but do you work? And if so, does your employer have an employee counselling service? Most of the schemes I’ve known cover immediate family members too. It would be a way of accessing someone your DS could talk to over the phone away from the school environment, while you push for the school to do what they’re supposed to.

lifeturnsonadime · 25/01/2022 21:10

@itsgettingweird

What people need to understand is that the police do not great children being violent as domestic violence.

They don't attend immediately for things like this.

Especially where MH or send are concerned it's just viewed differently. They'll offer referrals to SS. You'll be lucky to meet the threshold for support until someone is actually injured.

It's all very well telling a mum to do x y and z but it's actually quite insulting people assume they haven't already because what they think should happen hasn't.

Plus if you are being physically threatened and police don't come - what would you do? Get hurt or give them what they are threatening for?

If you were mugged in the street would you fight to hold onto your handbag or give it up for your own safety?

Sometimes you have to do what's right there and then for the safety of everyone involved and it maybe not what's right long term.

The issue is what's needed long term isn't being provided for the family.

Not is being threatened in her own home and then threatened by the very people she needs to support her because of the threats she's receiving at home to try and comply with their threats.

It's a never ending cycle of blaming the parent and wanting compliance rather than trying to get to the route cause if the issues and working to solve it from there.

All of this is absolutely my experience.

Treat the cause of the bad behaviour to resolve it.

Normal parenting/ punishment reward does not apply when the root cause of the bad behaviour is anxiety.

Sadly those who think they are the best at parenting because they have never been through a situation like this always think that 'common sense' prevails without realising that their parenting techniques would inflame the situation and put those involved at risk of more harm.

My shout out to those who have no direct experience is to actually read what those who have direct experience have written, and be thankful that they have never been put in this situation. It's shit. Unless you have walked a mile in the shoes of this situation you have no idea. None.

lifeturnsonadime · 25/01/2022 21:15

@SunshineOnKeith

Protect the children I'm doing this by not baiting him

No one suggested you should 'bait him' Confused
But clear boundaries are important for security, and you've already suggested that he manipulates and threatens you. His behaviour gets him what he wants, so why would he change it?
It works for him. There's zero incentive for him to change and zero consequences when he's out of line.

He needs to know his behaviour is unacceptable and if he continues to be abusive then perhaps SS etc is an appropriate option to protect your other children from his behaviour

A child in flight or flight mode simply doesn't respond to normal boundaries.

It's a survival tactic.

The anxiety needs addressing.

Agencies need to be involve but they aren't because of funding cuts.

Setting boundaries won't solve these kind of behavioural problems. Addressing the cause of the anxiety is the only way to resolve it.

Notoschool · 25/01/2022 21:15

@SunshineOnKeith

Protect the children I'm doing this by not baiting him

No one suggested you should 'bait him' Confused
But clear boundaries are important for security, and you've already suggested that he manipulates and threatens you. His behaviour gets him what he wants, so why would he change it?
It works for him. There's zero incentive for him to change and zero consequences when he's out of line.

He needs to know his behaviour is unacceptable and if he continues to be abusive then perhaps SS etc is an appropriate option to protect your other children from his behaviour

I don't think you actually get it at all . You have totally misunderstood my situation and how things actually are. There have been lots of people on this thread who have understood they have given great advice. Whilst understanding its not a straight forward situation that has simple answers. So I will work on that advice given
OP posts:
RantyAunty · 25/01/2022 21:17

Would your DS go to the GP?
Medication would help anxiety.

lifeturnsonadime · 25/01/2022 21:20

@RantyAunty

Would your DS go to the GP? Medication would help anxiety.
Anxiety meds are not routinely prescribed by GPs to under 18s because they are unlicensed for minors. CAMHS is the only route for these prescriptions, at least in my area, and it is nigh on impossible to get in front of CAMHS without a massive waiting list.
Peppapigforlife · 25/01/2022 21:22

Your post made me want to cry. I used to self harm and try to not go to school as well. I was a female teen so my parents were able to drag me out of the door and it just crippled me and only made my self harming worse.
I just would wander the corridors or try to go in late and then wander the corridors and try to just do my work after school when everyone had gone home.
I much preferred A levels where classes were smaller and I could spend half the week alone in the library or at home.

Here's a free website which may help him www.7cups.com
It has a section for teenagers. It's basically trained listeners and you can find a listener any time of the day. Most of the listeners have been through similar mental health issues themselves and started out as members seeking support. There are also mental support chat rooms which are open day and night. It's worldwide too. It's very safe and monitored and sharing of personal info and social media is completely blocked. If they don't feel comfortable with a listener they can request a different one.

There's another option on the website too for him to write to a licensed therapist, which you pay for. It's £100 a month to have the therapist write back every day mon-fri, but if you're on low income, they have an option to drop to the therapist writing back once a week for about £35 a week. He can write to them whenever he wants, night and day. The free option is really good too.

Peppapigforlife · 25/01/2022 21:23

Sorry that should have said £35 a month.

Notoschool · 25/01/2022 21:24

@RantyAunty

Would your DS go to the GP? Medication would help anxiety.
I don't think they give anti depressants or similar to children .

I am going to contact the gp again though to see if there anything else that they can offer /suggest

OP posts:
Atypicaldancer · 25/01/2022 21:26

I had this with Dd. She’s just been diagnosed with ASD. If I tried to force her to go to school she would harm herself and end up in hospital.
Thankfully her school were supportive and didn’t threaten me, I think that would have been the last straw.

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