Why are houses so much cheaper up north?

[CliveThighs]

OK, I'm aware this is probably a silly question so please don't flame me too much.

But I live in the south east where a 3 bed terrace costs around £350k. Which is crazy high. But somehow my brain has accepted that this is what a house costs.

But I fell down a zoopla/rightmove rabbit hole earlier and realised that up North a 3 bed terrace is about 1/3 of the price.

So what makes the south so much more expensive. I know the theory is London jobs and higher wages in the SE but are wages really that much lower in the North? Surely teachers, nurses, doctors, lawyers get paid roughly the same where ever they are in the country? Minimum wage is the same all over the country, and the vast majority of those living in the SE don't earn these magically high London salaries?

@RampantIvy

TheMagiciansNiece

It's colder, wetter and further from London.

All true, but I don't find that being 200 miles from London a bad thing. I grew up in London, and enjoy an occasional visit, but have no desire to live there.

Indeed!!

@Eeiliethya

It's bonkers!

My boss who is based down South recently bought a house (similar size to mine, 3 bed semi), mine cost £210k, he paid 750k!!!!!!!

When he told me and I was >> 😱. He asked how much mine was and he was nearly sick.

I live in Stockport. Not sure of his town but it's less than an hours commute to Heathrow.

Not being funny, but even in Stockport there's huge variation in prices for similar sized 3 bed semis:

www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/118628666

And
www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/117561278

@dafey conversely while all the london couples with DC work full time, i don't know any couples in commuter towns where 1 person doesn't wfh or work locally, with or without DC! i even know a lady with 2 DC who told me she kept up her career in London despite not being able to afford FT childcare for both, by placing DC for one day at each set of grandparents and only paying for 3 days of childcare. she lived in zone 3. one of my colleagues lives in zone 5 (kent really but in london tfl zone) and he pays £1800 in full time childcare fees. Another colleague who left punctually at 5 pm everyday to pick up the little one at an Uxbridge childminder....

Its why we stayed in london cos I wanted maximum access to job opportunities even with 1 DC. I didn't want to make it harder for myself!

do they do that because of DC/commuter town living or would they have done that in London. Everyone I know in London works FT. They just pay high childcare costs. or have granny.

I'm in an expensive part of SW London with dc in primary, the % of parents who both work f/t & commute into z1 everyday is incredibly low. And those that do you are talking the 200k plus salary so different ball game. I don't have one school mum friend, neighbour, colleague, friend with young dc who works f/t.

Depends where you are I think .Weather patterns in the South are generally milder and sunnier .Also London has better wages ,but many of us here on SC earn a more modest amount!. Lots of Northern towns will be expensive ,York ,Thirsk, Harrogate ,for example . Often you get used to where you live, and know where the better areas are .for example .If you live within reach of London can pop up for a days shopping /see a show .(pre covid anyway)

I just think in 10 years time location will be less important for maximum job opportunities & if the demographics of certain cities change demand may move to other cities regardless.

I work p/t & my childcare has been extortionate in the past despite having family help

Depends where you mean up north. Here's a three bed terrace for over half a million. Small yard, but communal garden.

www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/find.html?searchType=SALE&locationIdentifier=REGION%5E8171&insId=1&radius=0.0&minPrice=400000&maxPrice=&minBedrooms=&maxBedrooms=3&displayPropertyType=&maxDaysSinceAdded=&includeSSTC=true&_includeSSTC=on&sortByPriceDescending=&primaryDisplayPropertyType=&secondaryDisplayPropertyType=&oldDisplayPropertyType=&oldPrimaryDisplayPropertyType=&newHome=&auction=false#prop113893766

@dafey oh my colleagues don't earn anything like that! They just pay the childcare because they know it will be worth it once the kid goes to school.. I know a few male colleagues with non working wives, and they are always moaning about how they wish their wives would work... And yet they also say how great it is to have a wife at home to cook and clean. They want their cake and to eat it....

@dafey but if more people move outside london because they are not tied to location wouldn't prices overall drop for us londoners and we would be able to afford bigger flats and houses with space to wfh? even though the price of our homes may drop, the next step up would also drop in price. And the north would be more unequal- split between the people who can wfh for big companies based in the south and even overseas and those that can't.

It's more a case of why it's expensive in the South East. The weather and the amenities vary but not by a factor of 4 or 5. The London commuter belt had a housing shortage and a house price bubble starting in the late 90s/2000s that it's now stuck in.
Other areas weren't quite so expensive to start with but haven't seen anywhere near the same growth.
A house near me has increased x4 since 1998, where I used to live in London has increased by about x 12.

They just pay the childcare because they know it will be worth it once the kid goes to school.

Personally I found school hours more difficult to manage than under 5 & actually reduced my hours.

I don't know many women who don't work at all, maybe one.

but if more people move outside london because they are not tied to location wouldn't prices overall drop for us londoners and we would be able to afford bigger flats and houses with space to wfh?

Probably stagnate, which tbh they have pretty much done where I am since Brexit. They certainly won't be seeing the historic growth like my parents did.

@dafey I wouldn't have been able to buy without the stagnation, thank goodness for that. Rents have surged though.

It’s not just south east. We are further south, two hours min from London and property costs a lot here. As I mentioned above, houses in my road sell at over £500k, they have tripled in value in 20 years

I don't think stagnation/drops are a bad thing. It's ridiculous to have so much of ones income tied up in housing

@dafey I agree. I am looking at buying probably the most unpopular housing type- 3 bed flat in z3 north London (too expensive for FTB and above the 500k threshold for stamp duty exemption; not popular with families; was popular with downsizers but hopefully more of them would be following their children to live in the Home Counties and beyond). I am going to die in it regardless of whether it goes up or not.

@Paddingtonthebear

It’s not just south east. We are further south, two hours min from London and property costs a lot here. As I mentioned above, houses in my road sell at over £500k, they have tripled in value in 20 years

I think most places have tripled in 20 years though haven't they?

The average in our road in 2002 was £59850 but the average now is £354k. It's an incredibly mixed road, 2 bed terraces, 3 bed 60s terraces and then 4 bed Victorian semis

@Socialcarenope Our london flat has tripled in value in the past 20 years despite stagnating/dropping for the last 7 years... I think it is more for houses. It really depends though. My DH's grandfather has a 3 bed semi detached in a north london suburb (that would not be considered desirable by mumsnet;in fact mumsnet says to move outside london before moving there) and it is maybe 100k more than my flat and it has definitely not tripled...

@lakeswimmer

Jeez I think half the people on this thread have never been north of the Watford... "The North" consists of big post industrial cities, smaller historic cities, market towns, seaside resorts, villages and open countryside as well as a multitude of other places.

We're putting our three bed terrace in the central Lakes on the market this week - it's likely to be going on for more than £350k - we're looking for an extra bedroom but it will be a real challenge with our budget - house prices round here are not low.

By the way , the weather is just fine up north thanks - today the Lakes were bathed in glorious sunshine. At one point I considered putting sunglasses on inside as there was so much light in our house.

Perhaps we could ditch the generalisations...although I must confess I do own a whippet.

If it's in Kendal feel free to DM me!

£350 is cheap for a three bed semi in much of South East London and surrounding areas, eg Bromley. You'd be lucky to get a one/two bed flat for that.

Some parts of the North of England are expensive.

I think all of the people talking about ‘some areas of the north being more expensive/desirable than some areas of the south’ are somewhat missing the point. Regional houses prices of the SE England ARE higher than any other region in the UK. They just are. Yes, there will be hotspots within the regions that buck the trend and areas where prices are lower but in terms of average regional pricing, the south east of England has the highest house prices.

I’m not being snobby or uppity about the SE btw, I’m not from there and don’t live there. I just can’t understand why posters on this thread are pointing to house prices in a specific postcode or national park vs a regional house price average. It’s comparing apples with oranges.

All areas have their cheap and expensive parts, but its still obvious that on average, house prices are cheaper outside London and the south east. Nationwide House Price index tracks that the growth in London has been faster over the last 20 years and the gap has widened. You can download all the data.

@BalladOfBarryAndFreda

I think all of the people talking about ‘some areas of the north being more expensive/desirable than some areas of the south’ are somewhat missing the point. Regional houses prices of the SE England ARE higher than any other region in the UK. They just are. Yes, there will be hotspots within the regions that buck the trend and areas where prices are lower but in terms of average regional pricing, the south east of England has the highest house prices.

I’m not being snobby or uppity about the SE btw, I’m not from there and don’t live there. I just can’t understand why posters on this thread are pointing to house prices in a specific postcode or national park vs a regional house price average. It’s comparing apples with oranges.

I agree.

We live in a very 'naice' bit of the north, and prices here are similar to an 'average' or 'slightly run down' bit of the SE. That's just how it is, because SE prices are higher when you compare like for like in terms of desirability of area etc..

@BalladOfBarryAndFreda

I think all of the people talking about ‘some areas of the north being more expensive/desirable than some areas of the south’ are somewhat missing the point. Regional houses prices of the SE England ARE higher than any other region in the UK. They just are. Yes, there will be hotspots within the regions that buck the trend and areas where prices are lower but in terms of average regional pricing, the south east of England has the highest house prices.

I’m not being snobby or uppity about the SE btw, I’m not from there and don’t live there. I just can’t understand why posters on this thread are pointing to house prices in a specific postcode or national park vs a regional house price average. It’s comparing apples with oranges.

But this isn't what the OP was saying. They were saying there's loads of 3 bed terraces in "the north" under £350k. The reality is yes, there are BUT not anywhere you'd want to live!

Too many people chasing too few houses. Move to Scotland where there's fewer people, amazing scenery and more bang for your buck😀

not anywhere you’d want to live

That’s massively pushing it.

3 bed semi in good order in Heaton Chapel for £325k

E Didsbury do-er upper semi for £335k

3 bed renovated semi in Harrogate for £350k

Period terrace in Harrogate for £350k

Period terrace in Aigburth

Etc…