Why are houses so much cheaper up north?

[CliveThighs]

OK, I'm aware this is probably a silly question so please don't flame me too much.

But I live in the south east where a 3 bed terrace costs around £350k. Which is crazy high. But somehow my brain has accepted that this is what a house costs.

But I fell down a zoopla/rightmove rabbit hole earlier and realised that up North a 3 bed terrace is about 1/3 of the price.

So what makes the south so much more expensive. I know the theory is London jobs and higher wages in the SE but are wages really that much lower in the North? Surely teachers, nurses, doctors, lawyers get paid roughly the same where ever they are in the country? Minimum wage is the same all over the country, and the vast majority of those living in the SE don't earn these magically high London salaries?

@TheMagiciansNiece

It's colder, wetter and further from London.

But you have space to breathe, and the air isn't full of pollutants.

I am near Glasgow, and within a mile of here prices for a 3 bed terrace range from 450k down to about 200k. Great public transport, great parks, close to some of the most beautiful scenery in the UK. Nice shops, nice restaurants, decent museums. Everything you'd need.

I often work in London (and that's with me staying in nice and very central hotels, so not even having to do a tube commute) and every time I'm there I think how I wouldn't live there for 10 times my salary. Maybe 100 times my salary would force me to consider it.

TheMagiciansNiece

It's colder, wetter and further from London.

All true, but I don't find that being 200 miles from London a bad thing. I grew up in London, and enjoy an occasional visit, but have no desire to live there.

Where to start?
I could write a novel on your thread title!
Suffice to say…. I’d prefer to live in a shed than move up north

It very much depends on where you are looking. UP North isn't a complete utopia of cheap housing.

For example we live practically on the border between 2 large Yorkshire cities - Leeds and Bradford.

We have a Bradford postcode and own a 3 bed detached with garage and 3 bathrooms. Right now it's worth about £150k.

For an equal size property in Leeds just a few miles away you would be looking at 350k easily.

Moral of the story: move to Bradford 😂

Haven’t RTFT butHouse prices in my area (Greater manchester nice area) are still rising. A house we bought 4 years ago would probably fetch us 70K plus more going off local sold prices for the area recently and we haven’t done huge amounts of improvements.

Terraces round this town are £150k upwards. My area they are hitting over 200K too now. It’s defo not as cheap as it was.

@Toanewstart22

Where to start? I could write a novel on your thread title! Suffice to say…. I’d prefer to live in a shed than move up north

And we'd prefer you to stay down south in your shed.

@BernadetteRostankowskiWolowitz

350k will "only" get you a 3bed semi in somewhere like Gosforth or Jesmond.

It would get you a 3bed terraced house with no off street parking in Whitley Bay.

So not all the North

Or in between those places you can pick up a 3 bed terraced for £100k. £350k would buy you a detached 4 bed in my town. I can see the sea from upstairs windows and am 6 miles from Newcastle.

We used to live in Pudsey @SpookyScarySkeletons. Our old house (4 bed semi, smallish garden, single garage, one bathroom and downstairs loo) is currently valued on Zoopla at £355k It was last sold 16 years ago for £193k

@RampantIvy

We used to live in Pudsey *@SpookyScarySkeletons*. Our old house (4 bed semi, smallish garden, single garage, one bathroom and downstairs loo) is currently valued on Zoopla at £355k It was last sold 16 years ago for £193k

We are the dodgy side of tong lol. It's a beautiful space though, right on the outskirts and miles of open fields right next to us and we can cross the road and fuss the horses next door. I can see the church at pudsey through my window.

We were contemplating moving to Morley but then saw how expensive houses were we are staying put!

Surely teachers, nurses, doctors, lawyers get paid roughly the same where ever they are in the country?

Back in the 80s I worked for a nationwide company whose head office was in Liverpool and salaries were set accordingly and were the same across the country. I lived in Surrey and could only afford to rent a bedsit. My equivalent in the Newcastle branch had bought her own two bed flat.

Lawyers and accountants etc. get paid less up north. The big 4 firm I worked for paid approx 20-30% less up north at most pay grades (with a fair bit of variation between individuals obviously, but that was the average).

And in the public sector there is obviously a set London weighting for roles in inner and outer London. I'm not sure how anyone could think that professionals all earn the same wherever they live tbh.

And that's without even touching on the fact that many large multinational firms don't have much of a presence outside London/SE.

Houses in our road have tripled in value in the last 20 years. It’s nuts.

And since when has £350k become the house price everyone can afford ?

Supply a demand.

High population density in the south east means more people wanting to buy properties than there are properties. Competition pushes up prices.

And despite pp we don't all work in factories and shIp yards in the 'grim' 'up north". 🙄

@Shambolicatthleast

And since when has £350k become the house price everyone can afford ?

It isn't, it's the price OP stated. I assume that is their budget.

'The north' is a big place! Where are you looking? In my area of the north houses cost about the same as you say they do near you. Areas that are cheaper tend to be cheaper for a reason - fewer job opportunities (especially for 'professional' jobs), more deprived areas with fewer amenities etc

@GeordieRacer but are these towns easily commutable to big cities with jobs like Manchester. in london, the issue is that the professional jobs esp in sectors like finance are in the City/Canary Wharf and you need to use public transport to get in. Yes a small terrace in a commuter town (esp in kent) can be £350k but then the season tickets for 2 City workers are £800 a month in total at least which is almost equivalent to a mortgage so you are often better off buying a flat in london for £450k if you just want lower outgoings...A lot of people do make the big move eventually when they want more space if they have kids, but then there are also issues around childcare (if both are commuting) and if you have a lot of equity from your first property, maybe paying more to stay in a larger place in the same area is not so financially prohibitive if you don't have to pay rail season tickets. with regard to WFH, there is a thread floating around about a lawyer who has to attend hearings on Zoom and so needs total silence (seems a bit ambitious with young kids!) so I think there would be some office presence required with some jobs and I don't think a 4/5 bed house is necessarily going to help because little children have legs (plus those are not cheap in commuter towns either).

So in the south, you can't really escape from 'high house prices' as you would often be paying the excess to the rail company if both work (unless you are buying a very large house so the rail ticket costs are a much smaller percentage of the overall costs), but maybe in the north its easier if you can drive to work.

[quote onlychildhamster]@GeordieRacer but are these towns easily commutable to big cities with jobs like Manchester. in london, the issue is that the professional jobs esp in sectors like finance are in the City/Canary Wharf and you need to use public transport to get in. Yes a small terrace in a commuter town (esp in kent) can be £350k but then the season tickets for 2 City workers are £800 a month in total at least which is almost equivalent to a mortgage so you are often better off buying a flat in london for £450k if you just want lower outgoings...A lot of people do make the big move eventually when they want more space if they have kids, but then there are also issues around childcare (if both are commuting) and if you have a lot of equity from your first property, maybe paying more to stay in a larger place in the same area is not so financially prohibitive if you don't have to pay rail season tickets. with regard to WFH, there is a thread floating around about a lawyer who has to attend hearings on Zoom and so needs total silence (seems a bit ambitious with young kids!) so I think there would be some office presence required with some jobs and I don't think a 4/5 bed house is necessarily going to help because little children have legs (plus those are not cheap in commuter towns either).

So in the south, you can't really escape from 'high house prices' as you would often be paying the excess to the rail company if both work (unless you are buying a very large house so the rail ticket costs are a much smaller percentage of the overall costs), but maybe in the north its easier if you can drive to work.[/quote]
Depends where. Public transport in most of the north is dreadful and expensive, so you have to run a car- parking in Manchester city centre is extortionate easily a couple of hundred a month on top of the running costs of a car. There's a few places at £7 for a work day (£4 weekend) but they are hard to get hold of and full by 8am, so no good if you have school drop off (it'll take more than 30mins to get in to the city centre from most places).

I think it will change tbh as affordablility has likely peaked in many parts of the SE. I read that loads of FTBs left London to buy recently. Aren't young people flocking to Manchester or just not leaving?

So in the south, you can't really escape from 'high house prices' as you would often be paying the excess to the rail company if both work (unless you are buying a very large house so the rail ticket costs are a much smaller percentage of the overall costs), but maybe in the north its easier if you can drive to work

I'm not sure this is such a thing anymore. If dc come along often one parent gives up work, moves p/t or switches to local
job & wfh. Even the f/t worker parent will likely have some flexibility/ability to wfh.

"Up north" is such a generalisation though.

I live in the north and it's one of the most expensive areas in the country. A three bed terrace here and in the surrounding areas is about £450k.

You must be looking at quite dodgy areas? Of which I am sure there are many in the south also?

I agree that there is a variation but one thing Ive noticed is the budget does tend to go further in terms of size/nice area. You can easily spend 700k on a terrace in parts of London I wouldn't want to live in. No wonder people are leaving!

It's bonkers!

My boss who is based down South recently bought a house (similar size to mine, 3 bed semi), mine cost £210k, he paid 750k!!!!!!!

When he told me and I was >> 😱. He asked how much mine was and he was nearly sick.

I live in Stockport. Not sure of his town but it's less than an hours commute to Heathrow.

@dafey do they do that because of DC/commuter town living or would they have done that in London. Everyone I know in London works FT. They just pay high childcare costs. or have granny.