Al-Anon is weird: discuss

[Coffeetree]

I am estranged from a family member who drinks too much. She goes on benders. I used to live really close to her, cleaning her home after a bender, driving her to rehab. She used to say she wanted to stop, but clearly didn't.

About two years ago I said "no more" and moved away, now I live about an hour away.

Anyway I recently joined an Al Anon group with the hopes that it would be some understanding company. Also looking for support in telling other family members not to give me dramatic updates around Alkie McGee.

Long story short, I find Al Anon creepy. I've told them I don't think I have a disease because I gave assistance to someone with an addiction. I actually find that concept quite weird and victim-blaming. Evidently that is not acceptable to say. The fact that I drove a family member to get medical assistance means I am diseased and I must admit that. Also it works if you work it ad infinitum. I've just had dogma quoted at me.

Also the meetings are boring, handwringing stories about people's alkie relatives. I'm like, 'Anyone have any hobbies?'

Just heard so many people extolling Al Anon. Anyone else find it weird or do I just have a dud group?

Went a few meetings but they were well over 30 years ago now.

Yes, I found them creepy particularly the constant references to a 'Higher Power.'
That and the compulsory prayer.

Made to feel very guilty and silly .

Maybe it hasn't changed much then?

I’ve just finished reading “codependent no more” and she raves about Al Anon groups and so I’m surprised to hear your experience.

Oh wow. Yes that sounds super weird! I never went but considered it often, at my most desperate. So, wait, they say you're (the relative/friend of the alcoholic) the one with the disease? How bizarre!

That wasn't my experience of Al Anon at all. I found a lot of peace & community there. I just cried when I spoke- it was a huge release to feel safe with others who understood.
I had already begun to explore my 'role' in the addicts life & the cycle we were stuck in before I went. I didn't find it judgemental or creepy.
No doubt different groups Vary depending on who goes.
Could you try another group if it's something you feel you need?

Crikey! I never heard anything like that and I used it for support twice.

You may have misundertsood as it isn't an advice group. It is for saying those things you can't say anywhere else. The point is that by listening to the horror stories and how people are beginning to negotiate them you might be able to use some of that experience yourself

Sounds like you foudn a dud gorup, one that is curently in thrall to a Monster Shouter - someone who sees monsters everywhere, in everyone and likes maintain their control over things by pointing out just how bad every one else has been!

Is there another gorup you could try? It might be worth a try [fingers crossed]

And the Higher Power, isn't a religious thing, and is usually not pushed at all, it's YOU. My Higher Power was learning that I could use my sarcasm to deflect and give me a moment to regroup, form the word NO in my head and even say it out loud. I use it a lot these days, even if I don't voice it out loud I make that sarcastic comment, smile to myself and then say NO!!

But I can see how it would very, very easily be seen differently if the group is being led by somone who is more evangelistic. Al-Anon really isn't for everyone.

Then again, I've also been to Slimming World groups that feel exactly how you describe the Al-Anon meetings you went to

@ButtockUp thanks for sharing. How did they make you feel guilty?

I ask because there's been quite a lot nonsense at mine about the fact that 'my alcoholic' has no control over her disease, and I need to have compassion for that. So it's just like cancer, I guess, except you buy it at the corner shop and go get more when the cancer runs out.

OMG! Don't ever go back to that one. FUCK THEM!

That's so much the antithesis of a good group! If I went back to one and found that was being pushed I would report it up the Al-Anon food chain.

Yes, you need compassion - but that's more for you. Feel sorry for them not responsible.

Yes, it is a disease, and they have choices about accessing their treatment. THEY have choices to make, not you. You get to take your sympathy and fuck off - if that's what is right for you!

Bastards. Like I said, see if there is another group, or maybe an online session, that is a better fit for you!

I evidently suffer from the disease of co-dependency which caused me to engage in the diseased behaviour of driving my alkie sister to rehab when she said she was ready to quit. And i encouraged her to stay sober afterwards.

I'm just looking for a space to talk about how angry I am that I got punked into helping somewho chooses to be a drunk. The victim-blaming is not what I need at all.

I agree with pp, the Al-Anon group was not good, they can be a great support. I would discuss your concerns with Al-Anon online and find another group. You're not the one with the disease. The alcoholic has the disease. If you were enabling them, you'd be going to the corner shop for them, not trying to help them.

I evidently suffer from the disease of co-dependency which caused me to engage in the diseased behaviour of driving my alkie sister to rehab when she said she was ready to quit. And i encouraged her to stay sober afterwards.

That's such a bastardisation of what should be said.

It should be farmed that you are wising up to the co=dependency that bnites us al, and bites so very fucking hard. We try to be helpful, to get our alcoholic treatment, help. We try to find them support and succour, we try to remve all barriers, we forgive them their errors we love them.

And one day we wake up and think - Hold on one fucking moment. Why am I doing all the hard work here?

And the group cheers!

I'm just looking for a space to talk about how angry I am that I got punked into helping somewho chooses to be a drunk. The victim-blaming is not what I need at all.

And THAT is what the group should be. A space for you to shout into and get only an understanding echo back!

I once said that I had deliberately not cleaned up some cat shit from my SFILS hallway - he hadn't let the poor thing out, had locked the cat flap. It shat in the middle of the hall. I left it. I stepped round it twice and made a deliberate choice not to clean it up. SFIL traipsed that cat shit through the whole house and I didn't care, didn't jump to fix it, didn't try to hide that shame. It wasn't my shame to hide.

My group cheered and others recounted their petty decisions. We all agreed that sometimes these things need to happen. Some may have judged us but nobody said so out loud. We share our own truths. We learn how to forgive ourselves and lose that co dependency through that sharing.

And that's as evangelical as it should get!

It's a dud group.
I've been to two different sets. First one wasn't great, second was fantastic.
8d try another.

Try another group. I’ve been to loads of meetings and I definitely had favourite groups.

Also, see if you can stop feeling so angry and sarcastic…

No! Don't lose the sarcasm

If that is your coping mechanism then nurture it. Just shape it into a more silent thing, something you only share with yourself. It can be a great stalling tactic, just a moment or two of inner dialogue with a bit of a slef serving twist. It has saved me from being either so angry I could spit or such a doormat I got hurt.

It might be the group or it might just not be your cup of tea.

There should be no ‘victim blaming’. There should not even be any cross-talking, so you really ought never know what another member thinks of your share/ your experience/ your reaction to the alcoholic’s actions.

We say ‘take whatever you like (from the shares at the meeting) and leave the rest’. If something doesn’t resonate with you, then it is not for you.

There is some level of ‘what do I need to fix about myself, even though I’m not the one with ‘the problem’’ but that’s really about acknowledging what you can/ can’t control, and then seeking to make the changes you need to feel at ease and happy, whether the alcoholic is actively drinking or not.

I am estranged from ‘my alcoholic’ too. It seemed to me that those who benefited most from al anon we’re those whose loved one was also active in AA. I can see how it have each person a shared understanding of alcoholism and a way to communicate within the language of the twelve steps. It helps the alcoholic to focus on their recovery program without well-meaning / misplaced advice or interference from their loved one.

@Coffeetree
It was constantly pushed that we were enabling, almost like it was our fault.
The Higher Power thing was akin to that scene in Hot Fuzz where the secret sect would repeat " For the greater good" whenever anyone said 'the Higher Power.'

I'm going to be brutally honest and say that , that after a few of these meetings, my mum and I drifted apart , for a long time. My mum , like me, was a committed atheist, but these meetings , which almost felt like some kind of Bible Study group, made my mum return to the Catholic faith.
She became zealot-like and resorted to going to church several times a week, would spend much of her day with a prayer book and rosary beads.
She would constantly criticise me for not accepting God and when I left home to get married and go on to have my, now adult, babies, she would pressure me into having them Christened.
Every phone call became about my non belief, 'heresy' and how I was depriving my children of God's love.

I ended up going very low contact with her for a few years.

I felt that Al-Anon had awakened her lapsed catholicism and it broke us apart.

My parents, rightly, divorced not long after these meetings and I barely had much contact with my dad.

With hindsight ( an amazing but devastating gift) it was PTSD , not alcohol that made my parents marriage break down ( my dad fought in WW2 and his family suffered badly) but it was Al-Anon that insisted, in my mum's eyes, that alcohol was the cause of her problems as opposed to the side effect.

Her descent into religion was extraordinary and devastating to our family .

@CuriousaboutSamphire

No! Don't lose the sarcasm
If that is your coping mechanism then nurture it. Just shape it into a more silent thing, something you only share with yourself

I take back what I said above. You’re right, Curious - it may well be a coping mechanism. I suppose I wanted to defend Al-Anon. I’d still say find another group though.

Oh, definitely. Finding another group would be a good idea. Then if that one doesn't suit OP then she can give up and look for support elsewhere. They don't suit everyone, but the expereince she has shad, has, like you said, led me towant to defened Al-Anon. They were so bloody good for me, woth both of my alcoholics

@ButtockUp You too sound like you found a weird one. A chant?!?!?!?! No bloody way! I have said, in a meeting "So I kicked that one into my Higher Power", others have said similar. It is an Al-ANon thing but is usually far, far , far lower key here in the UK than it seems tbe in the US.

Here it's your coping mechnism. The empty space you boot your problems into. The Great Ineffable Who takes what you don't want - bit like a very hungry labrador (which is what SIL visualises hers as).

Sympathies to all who have an alcoholic adding misery and chaos to their lives.

May you all find the support that works for you!

12-steps and associated programmes work for some people but absolutely do not work for others. Part of it may be whoever runs an individual group (whether they themselves are a self-righteous twat or whether they allow self-righteous twats to take over all the time) part of it is that the whole 12-step movement is superstition based (and the least effective treatment, with the highest relapse rate, of any addiction treatment methods).
Don't bother going back. They are full of shit.

A male cousin of mine attended Al Anon as his wife was going through a tough time and her drinking was causing trouble in their marriage. . He didn't like it, there were a lot of women there the same age as him (30s) and he was basically chatted up at the end of every meeting. An older more wise lady advised him to stay away from the the females and don't engage with them in a personal way after meetings as a lot of the were looking for relationships. He didn't go for long.

the whole 12-step movement is superstition based (and the least effective treatment, with the highest relapse rate, of any addiction treatment methods)

What superstition?

Also, the relapse rate appears high because the statistics are taken from the USA where alcoholic offenders are very often mandated by courts to attend. They don’t want to be in meetings and don’t take any notice, so they have an extremely high rate of returning to substance abuse.

Now, rehabs - taking thousands of pounds for a month’s stay where they attend AA meetings and do a bit of art & craft - why don’t you have a go at them?

@ClaudiusTheGod

the whole 12-step movement is superstition based (and the least effective treatment, with the highest relapse rate, of any addiction treatment methods)

What superstition?

Also, the relapse rate appears high because the statistics are taken from the USA where alcoholic offenders are very often mandated by courts to attend. They don’t want to be in meetings and don’t take any notice, so they have an extremely high rate of returning to substance abuse.

Now, rehabs - taking thousands of pounds for a month’s stay where they attend AA meetings and do a bit of art & craft - why don’t you have a go at them?

Oh they are a scam as well. 12 steps were started by a woo peddler and based on woo - all this 'higher power' nonsense. The main effective treatment for an individual is 1-1 therapy. Though another thing that would reduce substance issues would be to make life less shit for large numbers of people as a lot of addicts get addicted because they are living what seem to them to be miserable, desperate lives.

All Twelve Step groups are weird like that. AA was loosely based on the Oxford Group.

I have no experience of Al-Anon, but I do with AA.

I know with AA that you really have to have ‘the gift of desperation’ to be able to engage with the 12-step programme. People don’t tend to end up in AA because they were having a few little issues with booze. You’ve usually started fucking up your life in some way. So from that perspective, the whole ‘higher power’ thing and aiming for a ‘psychic change’ can be really powerful, as it offers a complete and utter alternative to the cycle of addiction. (I’m an atheist btw, and my ‘higher power’ is as simple as understanding that there is a bigger picture, a life perspective, that isn’t all about me and my thoughts and my problems).

What I think I’m trying to say is that I always thought Al-Anon sounded like it could be helpful for people who’s lives were being or had been completely fucked up by an alcoholic’s behaviour - spouses, children etc - where they also had a similar desperation for a completely different way of looking at things and a new way of approaching alcoholic relative.

Otherwise, if you’re looking more for a bit of insight, some shared experience, something a bit ‘lighter touch’, a different type of support group or some individual counselling might be more helpful, I’d imagine.

Also agree that the group could’ve been a dud. Most alchies in AA will go to a fair few different meetings before finding a ‘home group’ where they feel comfortable. Probably the same with Al-Anon.

@Wreath21

12-steps and associated programmes work for some people but absolutely do not work for others. Part of it may be whoever runs an individual group (whether they themselves are a self-righteous twat or whether they allow self-righteous twats to take over all the time) part of it is that the whole 12-step movement is superstition based (and the least effective treatment, with the highest relapse rate, of any addiction treatment methods). Don't bother going back. They are full of shit.

That's the AA - for the alcoholic.

Al-Anon is for family and friends and works quite differently. There is no 12-stepping, for a start! The UK versions, as far as I have experienced, is nothing like the weirdness you see and hear about in the US.

No religion, no brainwashing, no treatment. Some poeple, like me, use the groups for a year or so and, having succesfully dealth with their alcoholic don't return. Others, whose lives have been decimated by alcoholism, can stay for years. Getting regular support and reminders on how not to fall back into co dependency, learning and re-learning how to say no, to remain a separate and uninvolved individual in any/all parts of their lives.

SIL has been free of her alcoholic for over a decade. But she had one hell of a ride and lost her sense of self almost entirely for a fair few years. She still goes, once a month or so. She refers to it as getting a sharp reminder of why she started at Al-Anon in the first place. She will probably go forever, as she feels the comfort of it and it is free. And she gets to choose from a large number of groups.

I have no opinion on the AA as I have never needed or tried it.

What I think I’m trying to say is that I always thought Al-Anon sounded like it could be helpful for people who’s lives were being or had been completely fucked up by an alcoholic’s behaviour - spouses, children etc - where they also had a similar desperation for a completely different way of looking at things and a new way of approaching alcoholic relative.

Yes! If you are only peripherally. lightly touched then Al-Anon is possibly absolutely the wrong place. If you haven't become co-dependent, had your life taken over by someone elses drinking, your thought processes warped by tryng to care, protect A N Other Drinker then I can imagine it would all sound utterly weird, maybe, as @Coffeetree said, like the group was trying to 'diagnose' you.