Page 6 | Ghislaine Maxwell Guilty.. What does this mean for Andrew?

something2say · 31/12/2021 21:21

Well bloody said. But they'll all run away and try to minimise their part in it. Happens time and time again.

givethatbabyaname · 31/12/2021 22:10

Perhaps GM was scouting at that birthday party.

tomorrowalready · 02/01/2022 01:20

Givethatbabyaname, do you mean Beatrix's birthday party? What addles my brain is the cognitive disconnection that whole family and the wider circle of associates of Epstein and Maxwell must have to practise every waking minute. Yeah those young , less socially privileged, less educated girls are the natural leisure companions of royalty and politicians and billionaires, they have so much to talk about. But their daughters, the princesses, the heiresses with nice jobs or college graduates looking for work placements or voluntary work? I am sure it never crossed anyone's mind they could be used for the same exploitation and 'fun'. Excepting Trump of course who enjoyed publically discussing his own daughter's sexual value so at least he is not an hypocrite.

I just checked and it is Eugenie who has a major part in something called the anti-slavery collective a charity working against people trafficking. Other members of her family have helped with events and publicity. They may not be very bright but even those of nearly average intelligence should surely see some connection? I could understand not wanting to make a public statement about your own parents iffy (to say the least) behaviour but blithely carrying on public involvement with a charity that works against the same criminal (and utterly heartless) behaviour your father at least tolerated if not enjoyed? Words fail me.

Non of them have ever had or ever will have any connection with me personally but it makes my brain wince and I cannot comprehend that degree of shamelessness. As MrsTerryPratchett alludes to it is obviously widespread and deeply entrenched in our society

Billandben444 · 02/01/2022 07:31

blithely carrying on public involvement with a charity that works against the same criminal (and utterly heartless) behaviour your father at least tolerated if not enjoyed? Words fail me
I think her carrying on with the charity should be applauded not sneered at. Eugene is supporting a cause she feels strongly about and is not compelled to berate her father in public to please you - we've no idea how she feels inside but to even think your adored Dad is involved in this must be heartbreaking for her. Do you think she should hide away under the stairs until the all-clear goes?? I admire her for continuing.

SerendipityJane · 02/01/2022 10:37

I just checked and it is Eugenie who has a major part in something called the anti-slavery collective a charity working against people trafficking

I wonder if any organisation where there's a high chance of a concentration of vulnerable young victims being in one place is really the most suitable place for someone associated with Prince Andrew. Especially given the revelations about how Oxfam has been behaving have come out.

SammyScrounge · 02/01/2022 13:14

@Billandben444

blithely carrying on public involvement with a charity that works against the same criminal (and utterly heartless) behaviour your father at least tolerated if not enjoyed? Words fail me I think her carrying on with the charity should be applauded not sneered at. Eugene is supporting a cause she feels strongly about and is not compelled to berate her father in public to please you - we've no idea how she feels inside but to even think your adored Dad is involved in this must be heartbreaking for her. Do you think she should hide away under the stairs until the all-clear goes?? I admire her for continuing.

Well said. I see no reason to include Andrew's daughters in the public shaming he brought upon himself. The blame is his, not theirs.

tomorrowalready · 02/01/2022 18:42

Probably I should not have used the word 'blithely' as I have no idea how blithe or not any members of the royal family or any of the participants in the Epstein/Maxwell events are. I am just going on appearances.

I do think that Prince Andrew's family benefited from his association with Epstein (and I don't know where he got his money from) as he (PA) considered himself too poor for the life he thought he should have and went looking for monetary support/opportunities. That is my opinion based on a fairly superficial skimming of public news sites. From the outside it looks like his then wife and later ex-wife(Sarah) thought so too and shared his values . That is based on their unusually close post-divorce relationship. Their chidren obviously benefited materially also. As children or teenagers and young adults they may not have known or even wondered how their parents supported them but rumours have circulated for many years. There is photographic evidence PA socialised with and introduced his children to Epstein (Princess Beatrice's 18th party) so they at least knew he knew him. We all now live in the age of mass media so ignorance is a hard row to follow.

I am certainly not blaming the female members of PA's family for his behaviour nor expecting some public renunciation but as I said I do wonder how they and the many others in the same position live with the cognitive discordance. Especially when they the daughters have voluntarily invoved themselves with a charity that works against the very thing their father has been associated with knowingly or not.

Probably nobody here knows either or if they did (by being in the mind of the individuals concerned) would tell me. As I said I wonder and isn't it wondering that makes us human?

peaceanddove · 02/01/2022 19:31

@Mrsjayy

I can't believe he invited THEM to his daughters birthday party that is sickening, that poor girl!

Oh but his teenage daughters actually matter, you see? They're his daughters, princesses of the Blood Royal. Elite. Special. Protected.

However, all other teenage girls are just chattel. To be used and abused. Instantly available. Immediately forgettable.

I 100% believe that PA genuinely cannot remember having sex with VG. I think he thoughtlessly and regularly had sex with a stream of (to him) nameless & faceless teenage girls. For decades. And, that in his towering arrogance, he genuinely believed they were willingly having sex with him because they found him attractive. And because he was a Prince. And because he was so important. And so very special.

When the Queen dies PA will be utterly alone & friendless within the Firm. The Firm will protect him, of course, but he will be treated with disdain everywhere he turns. He will be totally distanced, reduced and minimised in every possible way the Firm can think of. His own family will close rank against him. And with the glamour of his royal status so dimmed, his cronies and lickspittles will slowly disappear.

It won't be justice. But for someone as convinced of his own superiority as PA, it might well break his spirit and utterly damage his self belief. I predict he will die isolated, ignored and desperately miserable. God, I hope so.

deste · 02/01/2022 22:57

There was a discussion about her sentence on Jeremy Vine last week. When the interviewee explained the sentence, if she talks she would probably serve 7.5 years. If she doesn't she will serve about 30. What would you do? She has a year to decide.

tomorrowalready · 03/01/2022 01:05

@peaceanddove,* " Oh but his teenage daughters actually matter, you see? They're his daughters, princesses of the Blood Royal. Elite. Special. Protected. However, all other teenage girls are just chattel. To be used and abused. Instantly available. Immediately forgettable.

I 100% believe that PA genuinely cannot remember having sex with VG. I think he thoughtlessly and regularly had sex with a stream of (to him) nameless & faceless teenage girls. For decades. And, that in his towering arrogance, he genuinely believed they were willingly having sex with him because they found him attractive. And because he was a Prince. And because he was so important. And so very special."*

I agree with this and believe it also applies to many of Epstein&Maxwell's other associates or clients. It does seem they think they are made of different stuff. Funnily enough epstein must have well recognised the very common clay they (the 'special ones') are made of to get under their skin and know how to play them. Aided apparently by numerous cameras.

Didn't PA or a 'friend' try the "he can have any woman he wants why would he use a paid teenager" defense last year? It was Prince Charles who complained he should be allowed mistressses as Prince Of Wales when criticised about Camilla. Of course a relationship with an adult aware woman is different but I remember the hell Diana went through having her sexuality discussed as a young woman before her marriage. Did he help her? No, I don't think so and he would never have married her if he had not believed in his own royal specialness.

It's a bizarre situation (having 'royal blood') and would challenge the sanest well balanced of people. Like I now think the Queen is being challenged in her life long values of keep quiet and keep going by her own son's behaviour. I hasten to add, I do not sympathise. I think the institution is dying from the roots up and the social media revelations will hasten it.

Newyearoldyou · 03/01/2022 09:46

What a Shadow to cast over her platinum year celebrations.
He still doesn't get it, apparently courtiers and adviser were scared of him and no one can tell him the truth.
Everyone around him will be perpetuating the awful girl trying to make a fast buck situation... This is what annoys me.

sixpencenonethepoorer · 03/01/2022 21:24

Agreed. And with his ex wife on national tv telling everyone he's a 'wonderful man!' I think that was on loose women. Not too sure she'd think the same if it were her daughters and another much older man.

I hate that his daughters are put on a pedestal, while he casually screws other people's daughters and views them as disposable. Makes me want to vomit.

TVTestCard · 04/01/2022 09:30

peaceanddove completely agree. Here’s hoping.

SerendipityJane · 04/01/2022 10:04

I hate that his daughters are put on a pedestal, while he casually screws other people's daughters and views them as disposable.

That's the dictionary definition of Monarchy. They are different (and superior, naturally) to us mere plebs.

SammyScrounge · 09/01/2022 22:17

@SerendipityJane

I hate that his daughters are put on a pedestal, while he casually screws other people's daughters and views them as disposable.

That's the dictionary definition of Monarchy. They are different (and superior, naturally) to us mere plebs.

No, that is the behaviour of many men at all levels of society. As an example, think of SS officers and men in the last war. They quite happily slaughtered babies and children and then wrote lovingly to their own children. They compartmentalized. The murdered children were in a different category from their own. From corporal to captain to General, all practised the same sleight of thought.