How do second helpings work?

[CluelessInWonderland]

My family work on the unstated assumption that nobody should have an empty plate ever unless they are completely stuffed or the food has run out. My husband believes nobody should have seconds until everyone has an empty plate. If you offer him more soup while he’s eating soup he reacts as if you’re offering him pudding or after-dinner mints or poison.
What is normal?

You offer more soup while he’s still drinking his soup?

Why would you do that?

I don't take more until I've finished what I have, as otherwise I don't know if I'm going to want more.

I wouldn’t want to be offered more soup while I was still eating soup. Doesn’t make any sense.

How do you know if you want more until you have finished your first portion?

I wouldn't say that everyone needs to have finished before anyone has seconds, just the person who is having seconds - but I always cook extra so we can have leftovers for lunches during the week so there's no chance of anything running out

@Classicblunder

How do you know if you want more until you have finished your first portion?

I wouldn't say that everyone needs to have finished before anyone has seconds, just the person who is having seconds - but I always cook extra so we can have leftovers for lunches during the week so there's no chance of anything running out

I can generally tell whether I will want more without needing to finish everything on my plate first. It takes time for your body to register fullness anyway so realistically the difference between how full you feel when you have a small amount of your meal left and a minute or two later when your plate is cleared isn’t always going to be that noticeable.

@CelebrateAndDream

I don't need to 'offer' second helpings, as the food I'm serving is always in dishes on the table, so folks can just help themselves whenever they are ready.

This ^

Why would you offer more food before people have finished? I agree, rules like you must clear the plate completely or offering more food when not finished set kids up for food anxieties and eating disorders.

I’ve been to houses where there are 4 kids and even though there’s plenty of food, the kids all grab and worry they will miss out, especially when it’s treat food or pudding.

The result of this, in terms of someone serving food or serving bowls with a help-yourself approach, is that they all snatch and take. Ore than they want or need, often to stop someone else having it. Clearly this is a problem in the household and needs to be managed and decent behaviour taught, rather than being an issue with the food itself.

Personally, I think it’s good for people to wait for 2nd until everyone has had firsts. Especially at cHristmas when there can be lots of people, those served last might have barely started by the time others finish, if the arrangement isn’t that people wait until all are served. There’s no reason why those served last would like seconds any less than those served first, and if seconds are help yourself at any point, or someone offers them when some have just started, unless there’s enough for all to have seconds, not everyone will get an equal chance of seconds.

Ideally, serving up is done quickly so people wait to eat until all have their food and everyone starts eating at once. This means the food hasn’t gone cold and eating is a communal experience. This last point is the key one - eating is a communal experience. When people feel they can gobble their whole meal before everyone is even served, or take seconds, finishing off what is left before everyone might even be ready to consider if they’d like extra, the communal element is lost. Instead of it becoming about eating together and enjoying the food and company, and considering others (aren’t most people taught not to take the last roast potato for example) if it becomes about gobbling as fast as you can and having as much as you can personally shove in, without consideration for others and what they might like or about eating together, something major has been lost.

Yes, very small children might find it hard to sit through a long meal. Slightly older children might not have been taught to wait for others before starting, or not to demand seconds or to only think about what THEY want, but also some adults remain in this position. There can be a rather surprising lack of manners I think.

Hosts can help with all this. Getting hot plates on the table, directing people to start helping themselves and serve each other as dishes appear, can speed up the serving. Slowly bringing out dishes of food one by one and no plates to serve onto until everything is out and going cold, really doesn’t help, or encourage others to wait until everyone is served. Neither does waiting to serve until everyone is absolutely ravenous, or having tiny amounts which leaves people worried they will be hungry and prone to grab, before it’s all gone.

Like a PP, if DH gets up for more of something he asks if I want some even if I haven't finished what is on my plate.

This is his way of checking whether he can finish what there is or not so I'll often say something like "Not at the moment but leave me some in case I do when I have finished this". Of I don't want it then he gets thirds!!

I think too, that lots of people don’t eat with others much….so norms of behaviour aren’t familiar to them.

Lots of families don’t sit down toe at together, plus lots of people don’t go to eat at friends’ or families homes….not surprising over the last 2 years if covid. Some have forgotten about/never knew what being with others involves. Kids especially do need a bit of a steer from parents….it helps if it’s not for the very first time at a big event. So, knowing to wait until others have food, won’t be second nature if they are always gobble their food instantly and don’t wait for the cook to have their meal too. Likewise, they won’t know to offer dishes to others if they’ve never done it or seen it modelled. They won’t know to stay sat at the table until all have finished or to ask to leave, if they have always been able to run around whilst eating. Of course they won’t know these things if no-one ever told them. The sad thing is seeing parents getting cross with their kids doing these things whilst at a family meal or in a restaurant, when clearly it’s the first time they’ve ever heard of those ways of behaving.

Some people decide they’re not interested in that stuff at all. Their kids run around in the middle of dinner or demand something different to eat from what’s offered and the parent instandtly gets up to make something else. They want the same to apply when they go elsewhere too, because it’s all about the kids and they’re not interested in the enjoyment of other family members or fellow diners if in a restaurant.

Sorry…going off track a bit here.

I’m with your husband. How do you know if you want any more until you’ve finished what you’ve got? I’d find it so weird to be offered more soup when I had soup in my bowl.

Their kids run around in the middle of dinner or demand something different to eat from what’s offered and the parent instandtly gets up to make something else. They want the same to apply when they go elsewhere too, because it’s all about the kids and they’re not interested in the enjoyment of other family members or fellow diners if in a restaurant.

I find children surprisingly adaptable. They know there are different rules in different places. As long as there is a general expectation that rules are rules.

Why can't you add more mid eating? You might want more cauliflower cheese to go with your Christmas roast, or another 2 roast potatoes, to add whilst you and eating.

Thanks for all the replies. I’m glad my family are not unique. I exaggerate slightly about having to be totally stuffed. Nobody is obese. I probably do give inadequate first helpings, but people’s appetites vary a lot.
I think Christmas brings out inflexibility in a lot of people and is more noticeable when families meet.

Don't take more food whilst you still have that food in front of you. That's greedy.

How does is know he wants more soup if he hasn't even eaten what he has??

It annoys me that my FIL and BIL eat as quickly as they can and then help themselves to seconds and thirds before my dad, who likes seconds, has even made a dent in his meal.

On the specific question of soup, if seconds is a piddling quantity then I would rather add it to a half-full bowl than an empty bowl.

@CluelessInWonderland

On the specific question of soup, if seconds is a piddling quantity then I would rather add it to a half-full bowl than an empty bowl.

If it's such a piddly amount, either add it when you're filling a previous EMPTY bowl or consider the pot empty. Giving Steve a top up of his half full bowl whilst Bob sits there with an empty bowl is odd

@Kite22

Neither - there is a middle route.

So, if we were having soup and me and one dc had finished and I got up to get the rest from the pan, then I'd offer everyone - by that stage they should be able to tell if they want some more or not, even if their bowl isn't empty.

If we were sitting round table with a roast and someone were passing the roasts round, they would be offered to everyone whether they had a full plate, empty plate or part way through.

I think your family's way is somewhat unhealthy - almost forcing people to eat more than they want.

That all sounds reasonable. DH would find it entirely unacceptable.

I think people saying you can’t know if you want more until you’ve finished are rationalising their irritation/revulsion at what they consider rude.

@SleepingStandingUp
It would be weird to offer seconds to some but not others, I agree.

We do middle ground. Making a whole table of still hungry people wait watching the food go cold whilst the slowest eater finishes the first serving and decides whether they are going to want more would be pretty painful for everyone but that one person, but obviously first finisher jumping up and eating all the seconds before anyone got a look in or demanding everyone decide right now if they want more would also be rude.

But basically a decent interval after the first round when the majority have finished, the seconds are dished up to those who still want more - whether those are to people who have completely finished or still have some of the first serving.

If most people finished their soup some time ago and you are still halfway through saying "can I have the last of the soup or do you think you'll want more after you finish?" Is really not outrageous. Most adults should surely have an inkling of their own capacity for eating and how hungry they still are?

One of the DC eats so slowly that we do offer seconds before he’s finished his first plate. We have to in order to get back to work in time! I always make sure there is enough for the DC to have seconds should he want it. If family are round I do offer before we’ve all finished as I think it’s a bit mean to make some of the family wait absolutely ages for the slow eaters. And I think my slow eating DC strings eating out even longer if I wait for him. Perhaps our family is unusual, half of us seem to eat quite quickly, the other half are slow….

I wouldn’t want to be offered more soup while I was still eating soup. Doesn’t make any sense.

Of course it does.
If we were having soup for a meal, then it would have been served - a bowl each - and the remaining would be in the saucepan still. We eat in a dining kitchen. If 3 people had finished and one had either been faffing or had arrived late or for whatever reason still had 4 or 5 spoonfuls left in their bowl, I would go into the kitchen part, bring the saucepan over and ask who wants more. At this point, slow eater / late starter person only has a few spoonfuls left so can judge perfectly well if they will want a bit more.
I'm not serving the 3 people, taking the pan back, coming back to sit down, then finding slow person doesn't want more, then ending up with 1/2 a bowlful to either waste or share between 3, after they've then finished up their bread, thinking that is the end of the soup.

Makes perfect sense.

Now, if you are talking about a more formal family dinner with all your veg in serving bowls in the middle, then I would expect people to serve themselves as and when they fancy a bit more of something. Very normal in my experience, to have politely taken what looks to be 1/10th (or however many people are at the table) from the dish, then, after everyone has served themselves, you realise 4 of them don't like parsnips so there are 'spare' if you fancy some more once you've eaten the ones you've got, to accompany the turkey and roasties you still have on your plate.

OP your dh sounds somewhat rigid and hung up about this.

I’m probably more weird than either of you - I’ve never had seconds in my life I grew up with a mother obsessed with weight who would glare at every bite of food I put into my mouth so I had never heard of people taking second helpings until I was an adult. Even now I eat what’s on my plate and if I’m still hungry, I’ll have a yoghurt or a piece of fruit. I’m fat btw, this isn’t a weird weight brag, I’m just now realising how much diet culture and my mum has impacted how I eat.

On reflection, I agree with you, OP. If you’re eating soup and enjoying it and getting toward the end, you should know at that point whether or not you’d like a bit more.

Somewhere in between.

You don’t have to wait til everyone is finished til seconds are offered/taken. But you do have to take a portion that means there is enough for everyone else to ho hasn’t had seconds to also have seconds.

You also don’t have to have cleared your plate- you might have enough meat but not enough potatoes or vice versa and want an extra slice of meat or roast potato to finish alongside what is already on your plate in a balanced way.

Once everyone has had seconds people an say things like “anyone else want the last potato” etc to finish stuff off.

Basically just being aware of where everyone else is.

I think knowingly giving inadequate first portions is the worst in my opinion.