Patronising young people at work

[Starland2]

I work in the public sector. We have a lot of graduates. They are all intelligent lovely people but they have such strange approaches to work sometimes. For example I have a job in quite a niche specialism. I love my job and am very experienced. When the younger members of the team find out about what I do they often want to talk about it in great detail and I am happy to do so. A strange thing that keeps happening is that they will then come across people in a similar role in a different organisation. They then “helpfully “ email me and the contact and suggest we meet and chat so I can learn about how they do the job. More often than not I know the contact as it’s a smallish network.

The thing I find strange is why would I need these meetings? I know how to do my job! I think they think they are being helpful but it’s just odd and a bit patronising. You wouldn’t tell a teacher to meet with another teacher to talk about how they do their job!

I think they think it makes them look connected and helpful!?

A lot colleagues often go on about how young the graduates are in front of them. I never do this as it can get annoying for them. At the same time I want them to understand that older colleagues do have more experience!

That's quite odd behaviour from them, but I suspect you're right that they think it makes them look connected!

I haven't encountered the behaviour you describe, but among our latest batch of graduates we have a few who are very very overconfident and keep offering advice to more senior team members who really don't need it! Mostly the ones who do this are not particularly well-placed to give this advice, but they fall into the category "don't know how much they don't know".

They're generally nice enough, and they make up a fairly small minority of the whole group, but there's definitely be a noticeable increase in this kind of behaviour over the past few years.

I wonder if some of them have been on a course about the importance of networking? I know when I've been to such things, they drum it into you about joining LinkedIn and how you could contact people who do something you'd like to do.

Is it LinkedIn culture at play? I think with younger people there’s a strong sense in which offline relationships need to be “curated” in an online setting, and there’s a sense of kudos in growing your network in this way. I suspect being right at the start of their careers they imagine other colleagues will similarly be looking to curate a well connected work persona, failing to take into account its very much a novel phenomenon. Just a guess!

I've worked at offices where people sometimes walk in off the street with their CV, looking for a job, which is annoying enough as it is. But a few years ago, someone walked in and asked to speak to the HR Director. Erm, no? I don't know what's happened since the pandemic, but certainly just before then it was getting a bit more in-your-face which did make me feel a bit taken aback.

Yes I think it might be some kind of networking culture. I am all for networking but their approach is a bit cringey! I constantly have to say “oh yes I know that person, I used to work with them at xyz.”

It’s like they can’t imagine the office before their arrival! I guess it’s the confidence of youth!

Yes @blurp I have witnessed similar! People in the public sector are often too nice to point out this out to graduates unfortunately!

I've had brand new grads explain to me how to do parts of my job that I've been doing since they were in primary school

I think social media and the internet have produced a generation of bold, unshrinking and somewhat superficial young adults. They just don't have the self esteem issues or deference to authority that the older generation maybe carry with them. A teacher friend of me recalled a time in class, where she asked what her pupils might do with more confidence, and the students looked at her incredulously and asked what she meant.
While it's fanatastic they aren't burdened with awkwardness and caution I carried joining the workplace, it's also sort of terrifying.

Totally agree. Huge sense of entitlement too. One of the managers suggested to a 17 year old that she had taken more than her allotted time for lunch and was needed back at work. She snapped his head off, telling him that she wasn't quite finished eating yet. Astonishing.

I've been that age, and I've been the person being patronised by grads.

They don't know enough to know what they don't know.

I explain to them that I have been hired for my expertise, if they have an issue with that to speak to my manager

I wouldn’t see it like that, they’re enthusiastic and learning new things and if it’s not obvious that you already know these people, why wouldn’t they try and connect you?

I had an English graduate working with me. She couldn't work out where to place apostrophes - an important distinction, as she was writing articles for publication. When I explained, she shrugged and said, in a very matter-of-fact and confident way: "Well, it's all subjective isn't it?"
I said: "No, it's punctuation!"

They don't know enough to know what they don't know.

Yes, my mum used to say "a little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing" in response to that phase when you're learning something brand new and you get that confidence boost as it starts to click for you but before you're actually anywhere near competent - which then leads you to overestimate how skilled you are!

Like when you're learning to drive and you feel like an expert because you've mastered changing between first and second gear! Then you start learning manoeuvres and fifth gear and realise how terrible you were back when you were feeling like a brilliant driver in second gear.

I think we all do it. I know I definitely have, I just try not to torment myself remembering.

I get more frustrated at grads complaining that their work isn't interesting enough, because they're having to learn the basics and aren't yet able to do the 'fun' interesting work.

I thought this generation was supposed to be crippled with anxiety and mental illness!

I did this once as a graduate, I was trying to be helpful and was a bit overenthusiastic. I cringe now looking back on it!

@ineedsun yes. maybe, I am willing to accept that it’s good intentioned but it’s actually a bit dumb. There is no need for me to be connected to their suggestions. I know how to do my job so why do I need to be connected with someone doing the same ? This is why I find their attitude patronising. It’s like telling an author to do a creative writing class. I wish they would engage their brains before emailing and setting up meetings!

Until you tell them thanks but x and I already know each other, they won’t realise they’re annoying until it pisses off a higher up.

Maybe they think you don't know how to do your job?

I don't know, it's a bit odd. It's not really networking, maybe it's just eager to show you they know others in the field? I guess it depends on your job really. But if they are new they are learning and sometimes their approach will be a bit cringy and they are going to get things wrong, as Im sure you did. There's not really any need to roll your eyes and call them dumb.

Personally I struggle a bit with the whole "I know better because Ive worked here longer", I've noticed that a lot recently in a new job I've started, and I'm going to be honest and say some of them could do with talking and taking on ideas from other people in the field. Certainly I feel sorry for the new graduates who aren't getting the same experiences and opportunities that I did when I was starting out because of the attitude senior staff have towards them

I've been doing what I do for 20 yrs or so. It's fairly niche.

A 25 project co-ordinator will not know how to do my job, @KeepApart.

The trouble I find is that people think what I do is easy, and because I use software like Microsoft Office, then they can just sit down and do my job with no experience

I often get drafted in to correct the mess that is someone else's work

I work at different organisations and seen lots of "That's not how we do things at Company Name' attitude. I am not one of those people.

Often if Youve been in a job a long time you become a bit jaded because you’ve already tried all the “new”initiatives that new managers enthuse about when they come in, realise by now they’re not going to work and you’ve found the best way to do something and are happy with that. You inwardly roll your eyes at the enthusiastic description of the thing that will change your life and is the new way forward blah blah. (This happens LOADS in education).

However this can mean that it’s easy to get set in your ways and not be open to ANY new ideas, some of which may turn out to actually be pretty useful.

Perhaps these graduates are just showing their enthusiasm. Or perhaps they look at what you’re doing and wonder why they hell you’re still doing that thing you’re doing that most people stopped doing in 2006….

OP I’ve just suspended studies for the final year of my degree (but that’s another story) as a mature student. We have modules in both level 5 & 6 on professionalism and employability (which I don’t really like very much, but that’s me being unreasonable and only because they’re not so relevant for me) and honestly, the emphasis on networking/information dissemination/co-production/collaboration is unreal!

I wonder if it’s the same across many other degrees now and your young graduates are keen to show off their enthusiasm and knowledge? As an aside I would also dislike this in my work role so I can see both sides

Hm, I suppose we all annoy and frustrate each other, just in different ways.

@KeepApart I am actually new to the organisation but not the job (have been doing it for 20 years). I think unfortunately they are assuming I am new to it as we started at the same time. My annoyance is that we have discussed past experience so they know it’s not new to me. I think they are maybe bad listeners?

The thing is I try really hard not to patronise them. They have beaten hundreds of candidates to get their jobs so I know they are smart.

@TwoBigNoisyBoys yes I think the opportunity to show off is a factor! They also love having meetings for meetings sake. I think they like to look busy at all times!

It’s just such a strange approach to assume people have no experience of a job. I wonder how they think I got the job! ?

Will have to start being a bit firmer and pushing back. I think they actually use these networking things as a way of looking good at their jobs.

I have one, he will come and ask me a question about how to do something, after i have shown him he will later send me a link to a course so I can learn how to do the thing I already know and had to show him. (And its not because I dont know how to do it properly I promise, he does this to everyone about everything)

Yes @Toomanyradishes this is what it’s like!!!! It’s the most bizarre thing. What goes through their head? Why would you need a course??? Surely they must realise this?

Do you think it’s some kind of power move? They want to be the one who shares knowledge rather than receive it?