Patronising young people at work

[Starland2]

I work in the public sector. We have a lot of graduates. They are all intelligent lovely people but they have such strange approaches to work sometimes. For example I have a job in quite a niche specialism. I love my job and am very experienced. When the younger members of the team find out about what I do they often want to talk about it in great detail and I am happy to do so. A strange thing that keeps happening is that they will then come across people in a similar role in a different organisation. They then “helpfully “ email me and the contact and suggest we meet and chat so I can learn about how they do the job. More often than not I know the contact as it’s a smallish network.

The thing I find strange is why would I need these meetings? I know how to do my job! I think they think they are being helpful but it’s just odd and a bit patronising. You wouldn’t tell a teacher to meet with another teacher to talk about how they do their job!

I think they think it makes them look connected and helpful!?

A lot colleagues often go on about how young the graduates are in front of them. I never do this as it can get annoying for them. At the same time I want them to understand that older colleagues do have more experience!

Can you gently ask the nicest one of them why they did that? I think it would be one (slightly annoying) thing if they were just sending you the details of the person but if I'm reading it right they're actually emailing the person in question and you which is shockingly presumptuous and possibly inappropriate. What if it turned out to be someone you once sacked?!

But I think this is such weird and specific behaviour (but maybe that's me being outdated) that there must be a reason for it - my first thought is that the employer might be setting training objectives for new grads and 'contact two people' is one of them and you keep being the unfortunate victim because what you do is niche so it's quite easy to identify someone outside the organisation who does it?

Sorry I meant to type 'connect two people'

@AnneElliott

Yes I agree *@GuidingSpirit* that fast streamers very often come from similar backgrounds which I think does explain it.

I do wonder if their training courses tell them that they're the cream of the crop or something as I can't believe that they got their self important view of the world all by themselves!

Quite a few people I knew from university (yes, Oxbridge) went into the fast stream and yes, they definitely did tell them that they were the special and chosen ones out of all those applicants and that they were there to improve and shake everything up - basically that they would be the saviours of the CS. That was 2008 but it may not have changed!

Yes @HardbackWriter they just email and cc everyone in. It’s very presumptuous behaviour! Often I do reply saying “yes I know so so , we worked together etc (and I acknowledge the contact and say hello)!”

I am hoping this is enough to make the helpful young people back off!!!!!

It sounds cheesy but contacts are everything in my job. I have worked really hard to build up my network. Even if I have had a negative experience I am nice to people as I know I will always see them again at some point.

I think the graduates just don’t realise how much time it takes to build these networks.

As a fresh grad I came up with a new thing that was rolled across the department. It involved a lot of work initially though, as the process had to be replicated to get it up and running in different areas. At the time, I didn't even consider how it might impact on other people. I cringe just thinking about it now, and would be angry if some young upstart created more work for me.

Ah, a thread I can relate to. Also professional role in the public sector. I realised recently thstbi had more experience in my current role, than the rest of my team put together, yet I am managed by someone half my age, who was still at university when my current”big project” started. She specialises in inane questions from not understanding what we do, but she can follow a line manager flowchart. Unfortunately she has little experience to wrap that up in any kind of empathy with a lifestyle different to her own.

I would firmly say "as a new graduate/junior widget saleswoman it is not appropriate for you to try and introduce senior people to each other, particularly in this small industry where we will already know each other". They need telling!

I think I'd also point out that introducing you to people you already know is a bit embarrassing for all involved. Because it is.

It sounds like whoever manages the graduates has given them this as an objective. It’s very odd, especially for it to happen more than once. Can you ask them?

Experience isn’t everything. I’m working with a project manager who has been at this company for 16 years. All of her work is very poor. The fact she’s been there so long makes it so much more difficult to feed back. Anyone have tips on how I can feedback without being an annoying upstart? (I only have 6 years career experience.)

Urgh I can relate to this and I don't even know if it's just LinkedIn culture.

I'm a doctor, have been a consultant for a few years now. I not infrequently have very junior doctors and students attempting to introduce me to my colleagues. I recently had one try to tell me about a paper they'd read which suggested I should be using a different treatment. I had written the paper.

It only ever happens with males (I'm female) - sometimes I wonder if rather than misplaced enthusiasm of youth it's just old fashioned sexism

Retired local government officer here; I did my job for donkey's years. Every so often a newbie would appear, they had read the legislation so new it all. I had to mentor them sometimes and OMG(!) it was so difficult trying to explain why they had got it all arse about face. They were also blissfully unaware that others also had degrees, and they weren't 'special'. I think it is mostly that they could not grasp that they were just starting out and still learning, and had to listen to others who KNEW!

@pinkmink, in what way is your colleague's work poor?

@caoraich that is beyond cringey! I hope they felt stupid!

It’s interesting reading other people’s experiences. This has never happened to me before. It’s interesting that the organisation I am with is definitely “fancier “ than previous organisations I work with. Therefore the graduates are very well qualified and usually from privileged backgrounds. At previous jobs I worked with apprentices. They were usually young people who hadn’t gone to uni but were learning on the job. They actually often had useful input and experience. They also knew how to get on with people and had better social skills!!! Unfortunately I know it’s the privileged ones who will end up at my boss in the end!

I think if networking is important (As you say it is) and they've been told that, then they meet someone who is kind, unpatronising, and enthusiastic about their work (not in a weird, too enthusiastic way), then you are a good 'candidate' for introducing to others. Bloody annoying though.

She hasn’t done a timings plan or included my requirements in the project.

Building your own network is one thing, but bringing back little networking tidbits for a senior colleague and expecting a positive response reminds me of a cat presenting its owners with a dead bluetit.

I would be really annoyed if someone networked on my behalf, unless they were in a similar role and at a similar or more senior level.

If they suggested a course, I'd ask them why they were wasting my time and their own

@pinkmink, In that case, I would ask her what the timings and the requirements are. You can't really manage a project without those

That really odd. If it only happened once I would think it was them being weird but if lots of different graduates did it to you, I would start to wonder what I was doing to make them think I wasn’t very good at my job!

If you’re the only person in your job where you work and/or it’s probably something the grads have never heard of, and then they meet someone who does the same - perhaps they think they’ve found you a “friend” ie someone you can talk about widget control with. I know that shows a lack of awareness of how small that world is etc but it may not (probably isn’t) meant for you to “learn your job” from the other person. More that you might have things in common and can have a moan when the widgets aren’t controlled etc in a way you can’t with the uninitiated.

A bit like if you were at a party and happened to separately meet two people who were monkey tail experts you would be tempted to introduce them to each other (although with more life experience you’d realise they probably know each other from monkey tail school).

My new grads are incredibly sweet thank goodness.

My bugbears are the “been here 30 years I know it all” types who are full of themselves and quite scathing about newer people (less than 10 years) - fine. But then they demand technical help and other “little jobs” from the younger ones which take ages and are really necessary for the job. They never self reflect about the fact that they are actually exchanging skills with the younger ones. In their minds it’s all one way.

I think there is definitely an element of obsession with networking in this age group.

But I also think that young people have always been arrogant know-it-alls. There's a reason that even in the writings of Rome they talk about the arrogance of the youth! . I hope I wasn't a dick but I do remember absolutely 100% knowing that things should be done this way or that way..... twat.

And agree with @caoraich - there is quite often, although not always, some quite irritating old-fashioned sexism at play because this definitely happens more when it's an older women and a younger man.

@Anordinarymum

There was a time when people learned their job starting at the bottom and learning the ropes and working their way up, getting promoted for a reason. You would not ask anyone to do a job you could not or had not done yourself, and you were respected in your position.

These days graduates get those jobs. People with no experience of work or life, but a degree in whatever. They don't have a clue but they are good at making you think they do !
Networking is a clever foil for inadequacy. It is a stalling technique and a lot of it is to display diligence to the employer. It is expected and accepted as part of a learning process leading to promotion.
It's all bollocks really.

I think I love you

But course suggestor guy is clearly a total wanker. I bet he doesn’t do anything proper just focuses on looking busy and important.

I would wilfully understand and reply to his next email saying “great idea Keith I think you’d really benefit from this, it should cover the things you’ve been asking me to show you”. Copy in everyone.

It's probably so they can put in their appraisals about helping people develop or some crap, most people probably don't give them the time in going through their role so they don't have the chance to dip their oar in. Do you reply to them? I'd be tempted to...

@FoxgloveSummers

But course suggestor guy is clearly a total wanker. I bet he doesn’t do anything proper just focuses on looking busy and important.

I would wilfully understand and reply to his next email saying “great idea Keith I think you’d really benefit from this, it should cover the things you’ve been asking me to show you”. Copy in everyone.

Haha yes love that response actually