Mother to take me to court for access to grandkids

[Kanfuzed123]

I’m LC with my mother due to the fact she was physically and emotionally abusive growing up and continues to be emotionally abusive (spiteful comments, gaslighting etc). I’m the scapegoated child and my brother is the golden child.

I have 2 children one is 2 and a bit and the other a few weeks old. My mother has been ignoring me since the birth of dc2, she also said some spiteful things about how I let down my father and disappointed him before his death. I had limited contact with her more so than usual prior to birth as she has a tendency of trying create drama and stress and I was worried I wouldn’t go into spontaneous labour as I went over my due date.

Now she is saying she plans on taking me to court for access to my children. I know grandparents have no legal rights in the UK without going through the courts. I know why I’m limited contact with her, because of how she acts and each time I do speak to her she tries to start an argument or makes barbed comments and I don’t want my children exposed to that. Also due to how she treated me as a child, and continues to treat me and my husband but I have no ‘proof’ she abused me as a child and she will claim I’m the worlds worst person and deserved it.

Where do I stand in this? Will she win?

She has a very poor chance.

Spend some time making notes of the sort of things she has done and their impact on your mentsl health. Remember how worried you are she will do the same to your children etc.

[quote Hen2018]@tokyodreams are you always a pompous know it all?[/quote]
Correcting an inaccuracy doesn’t make you pompous.

You really should give legal advice unless you know what you are talking about. This is a difficult situation for OP and she needs informed advice.

OP go and speak to a solicitor.

Shouldn’t not should 😂

And I shouldn’t type!

My colleague had this issue with her in laws and unfortunately they won. They now see their Grandson in a contact centre. They are deeply unpleasant people and my colleague doesn’t trust them an inch, her ex (their son) is in prison, she suspects his parents were also involved in his crime.
But the judge said they have a “right” to be in their Grandchild’s life.

She won't get it. Grandparents have no rights unless both birth parents are completely incapable. Let her spend her money. Ignore any solicitors letters. If you get called to court, deal with it then.

@Tomlettegregg

She won't get it. Grandparents have no rights unless both birth parents are completely incapable. Let her spend her money. Ignore any solicitors letters. If you get called to court, deal with it then.

Not quite.

Grandparents have no automatic rights. But they can apply to the court for permission to apply for contact under the Children's Act 1989.

My PL were told they didn't stand a chance when DNs mother tried to cut DNs father family (BIL is the father). The had looked after her one weekend a month for several years (BIL lives abroad so only sees her a couple of times a year at most and not for several years now due to Covid).

Fortunately her mother changed her mind after a few months as DN was missing her grandparents and cousins.

Grandparents have to apply to the courts to ask for permission to be able to apply if that makes sense. This will only get granted if your mother can prove she has been a consistent figure in your children's lives so for example providing regular childcare 4 days a week every week for 2 years for example but in your case no, she can apply but it will get rejected.

OP, take it from personal experience she has areally good chance of getting access.

I have a family member who was physically assaulted by her mil in front of her children. Mil had also been in prison for drugs. She did have contact with both kids before this but they had refused to see her after the assault.

She won access.

Also I know a school mum that escaped an abusive marriage. The husband was later found out to have been convicted of having indecent images of children on his computer.

His parents filed for full custody and despite cafcass and SS recommending the child stay put in the new area she had to move back to the home town so the grandparents could have access to the child.

Family courts are not friendly to mothers.

Laughing at @hen2018 deleted post and then a string of people confining yes, this is actually a thing that they have encountered in RL.

This really worries me!

It’s why I do have limited contact with her so she doesn’t try and take more. She has the finances to be able to take me to court. She can’t prove she’s been in their lives consistently because she hasn’t BUT she’ll blame me for that and say it’s because I kept her away

Op it's an awful situation and I know that Tokyo dreams is correct. It's all so dependent on so many different things for each case, the judge etc.

I dread this with my own in laws.
Covid has been such a wonderful blessing for us.
My in laws are also v wealthy but fortunately tight as well which is how I hope they stay.
Make sure everything is written down etc.

Re the conundrum, she will blame it on you for not seeing them that also proves you don't want to see her and its her problem to address not yours I'd say?

For my in laws I'd say they way they are drove dh to a nervous breakdown, I'm a naturally buoyant person... Half full but time with them made me also feel extremely hopeless and depressed and we can't handle them how on earth can two children?
Of course when dc are older they can do what they like.

@Kanfuzed123

This really worries me!

It’s why I do have limited contact with her so she doesn’t try and take more. She has the finances to be able to take me to court. She can’t prove she’s been in their lives consistently because she hasn’t BUT she’ll blame me for that and say it’s because I kept her away

But it sounds as though she already has access to them if you're low contact rather than no contact? Courts expect people to attend mediation prior to any hearing so she would need to prove she's tried to arrange access informally prior to taking this step.

The court system is backlogged they want to keep cars out of it wherever possible.

What are your boundaries on this? Do you want her to never, ever see your DC again?

Would you be happy with some form of supervised contact?

I'm asking just to clarify as it's not clear from the OP if she is banned from seeing them and trying to find a way round that or if she already seems them occasionally.

This really worries me!

Well then, she's got what she wanted, hasn't she?

If she were actually taking you to court under these circumstances, she wouldn't be telling you about it, she'd want the satisfaction of surprising you with the actual legal action she's paid for so she can control the situation.

Giving you a heads' up gives you the advantage of preparation time and knowledge of her plans, so it weakens her power.

So why would she tell you she's taking you to court and steal her own delicious thunder if she were actually taking you to court?

I would stay low contact (and probably reduce it further as it's odd you're still engaging with her as much as you are under the circumstances) and keep in the back of your mind that she might take you to court at some point. But I would take her threats with a pinch of salt.

She's likely just saying it to get you to agree to more FaceTimes, so don't give in. And if the court thing does come up in conversation again, I'd simply say "that's fine, I've got a lot to say about you in court too".

She does not have 'a very good chance'.

I have never known a grandparent be denied leave to apply. But I have also never known a grandparent be granted contact in defiance of the primary carer's wishes. It's extremely hard to imagine her prevailing in the circumstances you've described, although I would guess the court would be more inclined to allow more FaceTime than in-person contact.

She’s got no chance. Relative of mine looked into it once as there was sadly a family split.

Not a chance in hell. Just block her and move on with your life. You’ll all be happier for it.

My understanding is it would be a waste of time and money for her, as she wouldn’t get anywhere. I’m always amazed at the entitlement of some grandparents. It’s further proof of how abusive, controlling and abusive she is

Just cut off contact if that's what she wants. Visitation for grandparents is rare and is for where there is a complex situation eg where grandparents were helping raise a grandchild, their child dies and the kids go to live with their father who cuts off access.

@tokyodreams, sorry. I’ll clarify. Im having counselling about her actually because the effects of the physical abuse and ongoing emotional abuse still impact me. So I’m working with my counsellor about what a future relationship looks like. Where I am right now, is if she wants to be in our life she takes us as we are and makes the effort.

So she’s not banned from them, she lives 3 hrs away so by dint of that she doesn’t see them often , the pandemic helped that too. I would FaceTime once a week but there was always some sort of comment about how behind my daughter was or how neglected she is (she’s not on either count, she’s spot on developmentally and to my mother neglect is multi packs of clothes from George and next And not wearing fru fru dresses). It got me down so I scaled back contact to every other week. Then my dad died and she acted so abysmally during and after. I needed time to grieve so I asked for a break from her. She didnt like this. Then the grief started again at the end of my pregnancy and I was worried I wouldn’t go into spontaneous labour because she really piles it on, so I kept contact to texts. After my son was born as she was unhappy with the fact she wasn’t contacted enough she told me that i let my father down prior to his death and got v abusive about that, then started ignoring me so I didn’t bother sending pictures or FaceTiming as she’d ignored texts from me and my husband.

This is what’s prompted the taking me to court thing

You are making things harder for yourself. Just cut contact. From today. Zero. Nothing. Blocked.

@Notbluepeter

You are making things harder for yourself. Just cut contact. From today. Zero. Nothing. Blocked.

Not really sure this is an option as she’ll definitely take me to court then and also emotionally I’m not there which is why I’m seeing a counsellor so if I do break contact I can do so without guilt.

Going for counselling is an incredibly wise way through this. I hear what you're saying. I guess what I mean is, no contact means no documentary evidence. No ammunition for her to use against you. It's not like she can bring a folder of her feelings to court.

@Kanfuzed123

This really worries me!

It’s why I do have limited contact with her so she doesn’t try and take more. She has the finances to be able to take me to court. She can’t prove she’s been in their lives consistently because she hasn’t BUT she’ll blame me for that and say it’s because I kept her away

I would be tempted to draw out her abusive behaviour on WhatsApp, just so I could keep records of it. But yes get legal advice. From what I understand grandparents have no more rights than any other person. Anyone theoretically could say it was in the best interests of the child to continue seeing a child they have been majorly involved in raising. But it really doesn’t sound like she has any kind of ongoing relationship. Ironically, her threats tip the balance very much against you give any access to the grandchildren! Very silly on her part. Unreasonably threatening legal action could be part of a pattern of harassment. So keep records and consider if it escalates applying for a non molestation order.

Family solicitor would also be a good option if you can afford it.

Reading your updates, good enough mums don’t behave like her has. I really think for your own sake you should cut contact. Threatening you with court? It’s totally overt controlling behaviour. Don’t allow her to manipulate you! If she had any respect she would have just asked nicely and kept asking nicely at reasonable intervals without saying anything abusive or rude. It’s really not that hard.