The situation in LA

[Cheesefiend36]

www.nytimes.com/2021/12/12/us/los-angeles-mayor-race.html

I've been reading with interest that LA has had a terrible time of it since Covid and new anti prison sentence laws which has seen crime go up. I follow somebody who was in LA for a holiday last week and vowed never to go back after seeing the amount of poverty, homeless camps in tourist places, crime rates and a general feeling of not being safe. Lifeless bodies on the side of the road is apparently the norm with no body batting an eyelid

LAPD have recommended that tourists stay away because they can't keep them safe

Is anyone there right now or has been recently that can share their experience?
So much wealth there, how can this be happening?

@Bet01, I read 'Hillbilly Elegy' by J.D. Vance, and recoiled in horror. You can see the progression of thought in the book.

19thnews.org/2021/11/diaper-need-rural-missouri/
This article illustrates how people don't see any link between who they vote for and the dire predicaments besetting them.

[quote ginnig]@mathanxiety what confuses me is the lack of understanding that a better society for all makes it better for you.

One thing I like about the American system is you can't avoid tax can you by living abroad for x days? [/quote]
I disagree. The IRS bullies the rest of the world to know about our bank accounts. Americans in the Netherlands struggled to keep their basic banking abilities because banks were dropping them.

They snuck that through in a jobs bill years ago because it sounds good and Americans back home don't care. But the US is hostile to its expats, doesn't give them a voting voice and builds a narrative that any of us living abroad that aren't military families are wealthy tax dodgers.

… and the Grauniad has eaten itself. With reference to the link posted just a few posts ago - the article refers to the “unhoused”. See? Less jarring, don’t spill your almond latte dahlink.

Halfway through the article is an ad for Dior - I kid you not.

Out of interest, what is the answer? The police can't shoot or arrest them all and (depressingly), it's not going to get any better, especially when climate change starts to make bits if the USA uninhabitable. I can see a lot more people migrating to the cities and ending up in tents.

Are there any solutions to tackle the opiod crisis at scale? Or is it "just" bring ignored until people recover, die or move on?

Are there any solutions to tackle the opiod crisis at scale

I believe there is support for the legalisation if drugs but I’m not sure if those supporting legalisation are the same people who are furious with the Sackler family and Purdue for encouraging medics to over prescribe opioids for pain.

[quote mathanxiety]@Bet01, I read 'Hillbilly Elegy' by J.D. Vance, and recoiled in horror. You can see the progression of thought in the book.

19thnews.org/2021/11/diaper-need-rural-missouri/
This article illustrates how people don't see any link between who they vote for and the dire predicaments besetting them.[/quote]
thank you @mathanxiety that 19th article was really interesting. I think I'll buy Hillbilly Elegy and really cheer up Christmas

@unname
My brother in America has health insurance. His son, having some heath issues and no longer under his insurance policy has moved to Spain (near my other brother) because he can access health care there. You might find the following link of interest.
www.nasdaq.com/articles/medical-bankruptcy-is-killing-the-american-middle-class-2019-02-14
“For middle-class Americans, health insurance offers little protection. Most of us have policies with so many loopholes, copayments and deductibles that illness can put you in the poorhouse,” Himmelstein said.

With the talk of healthcare and poverty. Can anyone simply (if possible) explain what Obama care has to do with this and what Trump was trying to do about it?

@androiduser

With the talk of healthcare and poverty. Can anyone simply (if possible) explain what Obama care has to do with this and what Trump was trying to do about it?

Broadly and simply, some people think Obamacare (or the Affordable Care Act) was a good thing because it prevented people from being denied healthcare insurance due to a pre-existing condition. It also aimed to make healthcare insurance affordable for the poorest by subsidising the cost and expanding Medicaid. It’s opponents argued that it drives up the cost of insurance for everyone (because if insurers have to pay out for pre-existing condition treatment, they increase all premiums, co-pays and deductibles to cover their losses), so the average person is worse off, and disincentivizes people to look after their own health at the expense of others (mandated coverage for smokers, heavy drinkers and fat people, for example, also pushes up premiums and costs for people who live healthier lifestyles.)

When it comes to opioid addicted and / or mentally ill street homeless people, arguments around the ACA are more nuanced: these people largely aren’t in a position to access healthcare whatever its cost or absence of because their lives are chaotic, their needs complex, and they lack the capacity or will to engage - just as having the NHS and “free” universal healthcare in the UK doesn’t prevent us having a sizeable population of street homeless people and unstable housed people with complex substance misuse and comorbid mental health issues.

Thanks Contesse

Interesting subject and so different to how healthcare is managed in the Uk.

@goldenoldie1

Thanks Contesse

Interesting subject and so different to how healthcare is managed in the Uk.

I think the two countries are different primarily because it’s much easier to retain the status quo than it is to implement change - particularly change that costs people money or which they perceive to reduce their choices. Quite honestly, if the UK didn’t have a well-established NHS, I don’t think it would receive overwhelming public support as a new proposal if pitched by one by any UK government tomorrow. I think you’d hear a lot of criticism and dissent along the lines of “why should I subsidise people who don’t take care of themselves?” and “but surely it’s totally unrealistic to expect a universal system to afford to provide equally for all?”

Whilst many people adore the NHS and think it’s the best system ever, there is a steadily growing percentage of British people who recognise that in its current state it’s unsustainable for the costs of modern medicine and increased lifespans.

And also, independence, self- and community-reliance, rather than reliance on and trust in Big Government to have your best interests at heart are fundamental tenets on which the US was founded and expanded. The idea that the government should sort your life out for you is just far less prevalent than it is here.

Adding on to @ComtesseDeSpair

Some additional issues people had with the Affordable Care Act:

While it ensured coverage for pre-existing conditions, it didn't ensure that coverage would be affordable.

It provided health insurance but not actual healthcare and certainly not quality healthcare. Many providers just refuse to accept it.

It was not actually affordable for everyone, even healthy people. People without health insurance in the US are mostly employed in low wage jobs or not employed at all. The current national average premium for a single person is $456 while the federal minimum wage is $7.25. It would take 62 hours to earn $456 and that is not taking taxes into consideration.

There was a tax penalty for anyone that did not prove they had purchased a policy. So it was regressive in the sense of penalizing the poorest people.

There are tax incentives, but adding paperwork and complexity to the lives of people living in poverty so that they can re-coop their own money is not helpful.

Many of us that were opposed are not opposed to people having government funded services and care, but were opposed to the way this was passed. Many of our leaders admitted they never even read the full bill before voting on it.

It should have been scoped out then tested in places like Baltimore and Chicago for a year, to see what would work.

Medicare/Medicaid could still be modified and expanded to help more people without causing the problems that the ACA caused.

Fernecuptea I put that because it was relevant to the area we were in.. we were later advised that for two white women to go into that area ( which was a black african-american ghetto) was extremely unwise.. and more so because there was some sort of festival going on..two people were in fact stabbed that day.
If you are inferring that my comment was racist, it wasn't , and I'm not and it hadn't ocurred to either of us that we might be at risk either on the basis of race or anything else!

@MissMinutes24

Thanks. Wow that is so depressing but tallies with everything I heard.

The crazy thing is a lot of the local newspapers (like LA Times) aren't even reporting it because it'll mean liberal policies they uncritically supported (such as defund the police/get rid of bail) have failed and they won't admit that.

This is so true. I live in Arizona and have watched this. Oregon is another one. Portland decided to defund the police to an extent and there are parts of downtown Portland that have been taken over and people just live on the streets. No ambulances or police will go in and it's a mess. It's quite terrifying to think that it's happening one state away.

because it'll mean liberal policies they uncritically supported (such as defund the police/get rid of bail) have failed and they won't admit that

How long before they will admit it?

Here’s a real-life of example of Affordable Care Act marketplace option.

For my husband and myself it would cost $1063 per month for the cheapest available policy which has a $17000 deductible. If one of us got sick we’d pay annual premiums of $12000 plus that $17000 before the coverage was on any value.

If we didn’t get sick we’d still pay the $12k. I have a great job and no dependent children and could ever manage that.

@unname

Here’s a real-life of example of Affordable Care Act marketplace option.

For my husband and myself it would cost $1063 per month for the cheapest available policy which has a $17000 deductible. If one of us got sick we’d pay annual premiums of $12000 plus that $17000 before the coverage was on any value.

If we didn’t get sick we’d still pay the $12k. I have a great job and no dependent children and could ever manage that.

Thank you for sharing.

Does that mean that you just do not have healthcare?

Is there any merit in saving the money monthly and using it to pay a care bill if you need one?

Looks like the insurers have a licence to print money.

For examples of socialism in action, look to Sweden, Germany, Finland, and in fact most of northern/western Europe in the post WW2 era.

Math. sorry this is just bullshit. Some textbook nonsense from 50-odd years ago.
Post WW2.....? That's over 70 years ago. Life changes....

I live in one of those countries. Not the ones you mentioned and yes, we have a basic bottom line that families do not have to live on the street. But it's not o.k.

Young adults cannot even find a home (none left), start a family if they want, have a long-term work contract, just a zero-hours something or other.
No way they will ever get a mortgage without a permanent contract. Most are flying through the streets delivering food.....

Meanwhile, more and more millionaires every year... WTF!?

Still, I'd rather live here than anywhere else. But to call it out as better is not the reality. Better than the 3rd world of course, but still....

Anyway, really interesting discussion about LA.... I have a dear friend there, nearby, with breast cancer and I wanted to go see her in January...
but this thread has woken me up about what's going on there...So thanks for that.

Healthcare has always been expensive in America and they’ve never had anything similar to the NHS.
Why has it got so much worse in recent years?

This is all shocking.
I wasn’t so big on the nhs until a personal experience of my father being seriously ill in a country with no state healthcare. Yes more glossy but lots of procedures recommended which I don’t think had any value given he was terminally ill and added tens of thousands to the bills. Insurance did not cover. I am now so fond of the nhs yes it isn’t perfect but I am a huge believer in it.

Anyway I digress. I came back to say I started watching Dopesick - thanks for the recommendation. I also watched ‘Crime of the Century’ on sky which I’m finding very interesting. It’s a documentary on the same topic, Purdue pharma etc. thought I’d recommend for anyone interested.

@Wintersonata

Healthcare has always been expensive in America and they’ve never had anything similar to the NHS. Why has it got so much worse in recent years?

I thought it was pretty reasonable in the early 90s. I was a student and a waitress and paid for my own, I remember thinking it was a bargain. Around $90/month.

I have some ideas about what happened after that; but I know my opinions are flawed. I remember being shocked that the unelected spouse of a president was driving the discussions around something so important. Perhaps that was unfair of me but it is not something I’ve ever forgotten.

@unname cost would depend on which state you were in, your age at the time and the level of cover and deductibles you were offered.
For my family in CT cover in this State would be around $350 per month for a 21 year old and £1000 for 60 year old with no exisitng conditions.

Excuse my naivety but the homeless people referred to on this thread could come to harm, having taken a drugs overdose, being attacked, run over, heart attack, anything really.

So in that scenario what would happen? They just get left to die on the streets in which they live? That is inhumane, please tell me there is a mechanism that will help?

[quote Travelledtheworld]@unname cost would depend on which state you were in, your age at the time and the level of cover and deductibles you were offered.
For my family in CT cover in this State would be around $350 per month for a 21 year old and £1000 for 60 year old with no exisitng conditions.[/quote]
Right. What I quoted was for my husband and I together in our state at our current ages.

Apparently this is all imaginary...

twitter.com/samtlevin/status/1471904248753364994?s=21