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The situation in LA

442 replies

Cheesefiend36 · 14/12/2021 10:34

www.nytimes.com/2021/12/12/us/los-angeles-mayor-race.html

I've been reading with interest that LA has had a terrible time of it since Covid and new anti prison sentence laws which has seen crime go up. I follow somebody who was in LA for a holiday last week and vowed never to go back after seeing the amount of poverty, homeless camps in tourist places, crime rates and a general feeling of not being safe. Lifeless bodies on the side of the road is apparently the norm with no body batting an eyelid

LAPD have recommended that tourists stay away because they can't keep them safe

Is anyone there right now or has been recently that can share their experience?
So much wealth there, how can this be happening?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
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DaisyNGO · 16/12/2021 10:26

Fearne as a non-caucasian, that knocked me for six, bit of an ouch moment. I need to toughen up.

whataboutbob why is there more coming, please?

I looked into this a bit. Lots of mentions of Prop 47 but that seems to have come in in 2014, so some of this looting must have been happening a while?

whataboutbob · 16/12/2021 10:54

@DaisyNGO chiefly because international forces are no longer there to destroy the poppy crops, the Taliban are desperate for revenue and one of the base materials for Crystal meths grows abundantly in Afghanistan.

DaisyNGO · 16/12/2021 11:03

[quote whataboutbob]@DaisyNGO chiefly because international forces are no longer there to destroy the poppy crops, the Taliban are desperate for revenue and one of the base materials for Crystal meths grows abundantly in Afghanistan.[/quote]
Thank you.

OhWhyNot · 16/12/2021 12:00

Defund the Police is a policy favoured by those who are either dubiously politically motivated or live safely and do not need the services of the police

And also supported by many people who have understandable mistrust of the police

In Los Angeles you have a large Latino and Korean population who many too have understandable mistrust of the police

It’s not just those that want anarchy it’s supported by many who wanted to be treated as equals and as fairly as their white neighbours

DottyHarmer · 16/12/2021 13:13

So what’s the alternative? Community security? Vigilantes?

justasking111 · 16/12/2021 13:29

@DottyHarmer

So what’s the alternative? Community security? Vigilantes?
Well if you have the money to relocate then folks do otherwise ??
DottyHarmer · 16/12/2021 13:33

If you live in a poor neighbourhood in south central LA I don’t think relocating to a ranch in Montana or a beach compound in NZ is option A.

julieca · 16/12/2021 13:47

Just been reading research about how crime is closely tied to high levels of inequality. Until this is tackled, it will always be fire fighting.

unname · 16/12/2021 14:12

@OhWhyNot

Defund the Police is a policy favoured by those who are either dubiously politically motivated or live safely and do not need the services of the police

And also supported by many people who have understandable mistrust of the police

In Los Angeles you have a large Latino and Korean population who many too have understandable mistrust of the police

It’s not just those that want anarchy it’s supported by many who wanted to be treated as equals and as fairly as their white neighbours

I wonder how you know?

Just by reading about it?

I live in the US and don't know anyone of any race that supports defunding the police except our local population of rich white kids running coffee shops funded by government grants. ie; people that don't live in reality.

Packingsoapandwater · 16/12/2021 14:53

[quote julieca]@onlychildhamster they are more collective societies where you help each other out. Britain is a very selfish and individualistic society. I hate how selfish our society is.[/quote]
I find comments like this very interesting. I've lived and worked in more collective and familial societies, and my impression is that you just replace one set of problems with another.

Familial societies inevitably end up with some type of economic exploitation of younger family members and those lower down the family hierarchy, and dangerous forms of nepotism running through society with people consistently turning a blind eye to abhorrent or corrupt behaviour. This is very true of my DH's mother culture, which is virtually impossible to navigate without a patron of some sorts, and feels unstable at the best of times.

Collectivist societies either tend to break down the social glue between citizens because, inevitably, people stop helping those that continually get themselves into a fix or who don't give back what they get out, or they seem to stifle individual excellence and eccentricity -- the old quip about the Swiss only ever inventing cheese and cuckoo clocks, for example.

Modern Britain, in my view, is split as a society between selfish twats and people who give a shit. But what I think is interesting about Britain is that there are quite a lot of people who do give a shit. I've not really seen that level of general civic benevolence in other countries.

A lot of people do things for no personal financial gain in Britain; you don't really find that in a lot of other cultures -- for example, I can't think of another country where you would get volunteer neighbourhood In Bloom groups, for example.

Wintersonata · 16/12/2021 15:10

Maybe plenty of well off liberals don’t really support Defund the Police but if by supporting it they annoy Republicans then it’s worth supporting.
My enemy’s enemy is my friend.

DottyHarmer · 16/12/2021 15:12

For such a selfish and individualistic society, Britain has somehow done rather well with the vaccination programme and all the volunteers who have stepped up. I think anyone who thinks we’re that crap should stand in a vaccine queue and witness the friendliness, helpfulness and decency of the people involved.

KeranaCosmonauts · 16/12/2021 16:05

@Packingsoapandwater This is so accurate. I am from a country that is very family orientated, with a very communal lifestyle. Yes there are some good things about it - extended family networks, neighbours know each other, parents help their children well into adulthood and the children look after the parents in old age. There aren't huge numbers of street homeless because family would take people in before it came to that.

But on the whole I don't think people are any less selfish. Yes families are close and your relatives will help you but outside of the family no one cares about you. When we came to the Uk my mum was astounded that, when she had a cancer diagnosis, there were charity volunteers who drove her to appointments. She was astonished that people would do that for a stranger, for no gain of any kind.
Also in communal societies there is a real "busybody" culture, where people feel entitled to stick their nose in your business. There's no such thing as "live and let live" or the concept of privacy. No tolerance for minorities, or people who don't conform.

I don't know what the answer is. Clearly the American culture of extreme individualism isn't working either. I think the UK has a good balance of individualism and social welfare policies. It's not perfect either but no system will ever be. I've lived in several counties with very different cultures and eventually chose the UK to settle down in. I don't think I could live in the USA.

50ShadesOfCatholic · 16/12/2021 16:29

[quote A580Hojas]@Jellyfishandshells - I don't think SandysMam is coming back to answer that question. At least 10 of us, if not more, have asked it on the thread. We are all Londoners who have some idea of what is going on in the capital - unlike the helpful poster in New Zealand who googled "tent cities in London" and came up with a story from London, Ontario to shore up the claims. Made me laugh![/quote]
You are talking about me. Yes, it made me laugh too 😂

However I should point out I lived the bulk of my life in London and witnessed a great deal of homelessness, Dickensian really. Cardboard cities, tent cities...these are visible, but much more prevalent is the population of invisible homeless, migrants in horrifically cramped and unsafe accommodation, couch surfers and so on.

Posts claiming migrants in London "don't mind" squashing in together are extraordinary in their ignorance. Why would we imagine people don't mind living in squalor?

There are also plenty of awful tower block neighbourhoods that are miserable and unsafe for many of the residents. Let's not pretend London has homelessness sussed.

50ShadesOfCatholic · 16/12/2021 16:34

@StillMedusa

LA was souless. Venice Beach etc was just one big weed fest but grimy rather than scary. New York wasn't too bad, and in fact when we got off the subway and unknowingly walked into a 'bad' area we passed through (the only two caucasians there) and only realised later that it was probably unsafe.

Do you have any idea how offensive that is? Correlating being non-Caucasian with danger?

See I think what is dangerous is racism, especially when it's dressed up as concern.

DottyHarmer · 16/12/2021 16:45

I suppose tourists’ initial impressions do matter. I too have raised an eyebrow at posters condemning whole swathes of a country based on a fly drive, but in some places the homeless are hard to ignore.

I was once sandwiched at a dinner party between a Canadian investment banker and a Dutch model. They talked across me (understandably!) and were “bonding” over how awful London was. It was grey, boring, dreary, bad restaurants, bad buildings…. Boy, I nearly stood up and sang the National Anthem! You can criticise your own country or city, but if some transient twerp does it - totally unacceptable!

Wintersonata · 16/12/2021 17:03

There are also plenty of awful tower block neighbourhoods that are miserable and unsafe for many of the residents

This I totally agree with. Local authority housing is needed everywhere and those needing it should be given decent housing.
I don’t think many of those advocating tower blocks actually lived in them.
There is a housing estate near where we stay when we go to London. The tower blocks replaced 30 acres of nice Victorian houses which were compulsorily purchased and their residents who were given no say in the matter were rehoused in the tower blocks.
It was one of the last tower block estates to be built and I guess many back handers were involved.
Similar houses in the neighbourhood to the ones which were demolished are worth a fortune now.

Thisgroupneverceasestoamazeme · 16/12/2021 17:28

Family and friends who visited/live there have told me the same about LA. People tend to head there if they sleep rough/live in their vehicle because of the warmer climate. It’s also far easier to end up homeless due to the lack of welfare state and free healthcare. Know of people who’ve lost their jobs due to mental health issues, treatment for which was tied up in their employee health insurance. Becomes a catch 22 situation…untreated mental health as a barrier to employment and then no employment and a pre-existing condition means no access to health care. A pretty fast pipeline to homelessness. Similar for people who need expensive cancer treatments.

Esspee · 16/12/2021 17:34

I’m just back from the US. Went to visit The Alamo in San Antonio, Texas and found ourselves in an area of multiple deprivation and tent cities under the overpasses. People were walking around like zombies high on whatever.
In LA if you stray from the Star Walk or Rodeo Drive in the wrong direction you run into people with their worldly possessions in a supermarket trolley. In some areas every set of traffic lights has beggars banging on your car windows.

wellstopdoingitthen · 16/12/2021 18:24

@MissMinutes24
Just to point out that the Tories did not set up the NHS, they voted against it several times.

Thisgroupneverceasestoamazeme · 16/12/2021 18:41

Haven’t read the full thread so someone else has probably pointed this out but we all know ‘defund the police’ doesn’t literally mean get rid of the police or take away their funding don’t we? It’s about allocating the right funding for the right needs/services and using a collaborative approach between services instead of everything being treated as a criminal/police matter

justhavingmysay · 16/12/2021 19:02

We were in San Francisco the year before Covid and thousands of homeless people lying on the streets, not even in tents. On all the underpasses there were tent cities. When we were there ten years ago there were homeless people on the streets but not nearly as many as 2 years ago. This isn't entirely a Covid thing, this has been going on for years. My friend lives in Vallejo in California and she never walks anywhere because of the crime and homeless people.

YankeeinKingArthursCourt · 16/12/2021 19:06

Advocates, when asked "What does 'defund the police' look like?", they answer "It looks like the suburbs". Meaning a community approach, particularly to non-violent youth drug use for example. For middle class ( largely white) kids, it means counselling/ rehabilitation. For poor ( largely POC), non violent drug crimes lead to criminal prosecution. It's about reallocation of community resources.

It's not a new "woke" idea. Look at W.E.B.Dubois.

wellstopdoingitthen · 16/12/2021 19:07

@julieca

Also many younger people in the UK don't seem to realise that in the early 70's we didn't used to see street homeless people, or it was very rare. I lived in a poor city and only knew of one man, an alcoholic, who slept rough. I was horrified by this, but lots of people had talked to him, and he didn't want a bed. There must have been some deep issues there. You did get runaways sleeping rough for short spaces of time, or longer if they were underage and trying to avoid the police. But street homelessness was extremely rare. And I knew young people at the time who were street homeless, so I am not talking from some privileged perspective unaware what was happening.

In 1979 with Thatcher in, suddenly street homelessness exploded with the change to housing benefits. I remember going to London and being shocked at how suddenly there were lots of young people sleeping in the streets. That was a new thing.

I say this because street homelessness is largely not inevitable. You will always get a tiny number of people with deeper issues or young runaways, but street homelessness should be absolutely tiny and shocking.

In my city in the first lockdown when all street homeless were offered a bed and encouraged to take it up, I saw only one person continue to sleep on the streets. As soon as that initiative was stopped the numbers went way back up again and are continuing to climb.

We are nowhere near LA levels, but we are also not doing anything to tackle our own street homelessness problems.

Absolutely spot on. The Thatcher era brought on the selfish, I'm all right jack era. I saw it for myself.
PurpleIndigoViolet · 16/12/2021 19:15

I wonder if part of the issue in US cities like LA is the fact that they are so car-based. Which means that the rich and middle classes can on the whole drive from one part of the city to another and avoid coming face to face with the worst of it. Which means they don’t really confront and acknowledge the scale of the poverty and inequality day to day, and so there isn’t any urgency to tackle the problems.

Whereas in cities like London pretty much everyone walks, uses the Tube etc, and so everyone isn’t quite as disconnected from each other, and there’s some level of social cohesion / community. Though obvs London is very far from some utopia!

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