The situation in LA

[Cheesefiend36]

www.nytimes.com/2021/12/12/us/los-angeles-mayor-race.html

I've been reading with interest that LA has had a terrible time of it since Covid and new anti prison sentence laws which has seen crime go up. I follow somebody who was in LA for a holiday last week and vowed never to go back after seeing the amount of poverty, homeless camps in tourist places, crime rates and a general feeling of not being safe. Lifeless bodies on the side of the road is apparently the norm with no body batting an eyelid

LAPD have recommended that tourists stay away because they can't keep them safe

Is anyone there right now or has been recently that can share their experience?
So much wealth there, how can this be happening?

But as soon as you get to the stage where life is a bit harder whether through children, illness or old age, individualistic societies are not as good. There is little support for the tough times.
But who does that care come from? Women. As a poster said upthread. My father died in a care home. I certainly don't want to live in a society where it's assumed that I'll take care of him, which is what we're talking about here.

But to me religiosity is a show of religion rather than actually trying to practice the Christian values they supposedly espouse

Well, some religious people will practice what they preach and some won't, but to blame all this mess on religion is ridiculous.

@ComtesseDeSpair its not about selflessness. Living with your mum till you can afford to buy a house or your mum providing free childcare in return for living in a room in your house/future care when she is 90 is not selflessness. Its reciprocal self interest. Asian parents might demand things like allowances from adult children but they are often more generous in terms of supporting their kids i.e. paying for university tuition.

What it means that family resources are allocated more efficiently so if the government doesn't step in, the kids don't go hungry and no one is homeless. People also are in a better position to build financial stability which helps in later life (when there are inevitably medical problems/job losses) as opposed to someone who never had the chance and had to live by themselves before they even accumulated any substantial savings. If a 45 year old renter with 2 children loses his job, he is in a much worse position compared to a 45 year old who bought his house 20 years ago at 2001 prices and hopefully has quite a lot of equity (and might have more savings due to paying a mortgage at 2001 prices). in america, it is that group that can lose everything in a recession.

@MaMaLa321 my grandma is in a carehome in an asian country. My mum has never changed her diaper. But she sold her house to help my dad buy his house and has stayed with my parents for over 29 years while I was growing up. What this has meant is that my mum could pursue her career and that alone has paid for my grandma's care fees many times over. Before she went into the care home, my grandma had a domestic helper who lived with usand changed the diapers.

@mustlovegin

But to me religiosity is a show of religion rather than actually trying to practice the Christian values they supposedly espouse

Well, some religious people will practice what they preach and some won't, but to blame all this mess on religion is ridiculous.

I agree.

Still today in the US much of the best support one can access when struggling comes from religious organizations like Jewish Community Centers, YMCA, YWCA and local churches. Salvation Army runs all kinds of programs. Our largest support locally for the homeless and working poor comes through a Christian organization.
They provide temporary shelter, meals, medical and dental care and beyond.

There are those that resent this and complain but those people don't seem to do anything similar themselves.

This is what happens when idiots call for defunding the police and destabilising the traditional family unit.

They are more to be pitied than laughed at but what really takes the biscuit is those in power trying to appease this bunch of twats.

I hope the next time someone wanders around with a banner with Defund the Police, someone runs up to them and shoves it up their arse sideways.

@MaMaLa321

But as soon as you get to the stage where life is a bit harder whether through children, illness or old age, individualistic societies are not as good. There is little support for the tough times. But who does that care come from? Women. As a poster said upthread. My father died in a care home. I certainly don't want to live in a society where it's assumed that I'll take care of him, which is what we're talking about here.

I am not talking about that. People in care homes need a lot of help. But long before that people need bits of ad hoc help. So amongst my siblings we drive our mum to hospital except for very routine appointments. My niece mows their lawn when they cant, and my nephew cuts their bushes. My sister has got meds from the chemist when my isn't well. Its just ad hoc stuff like this that makes life easier.

@MaMaLa321 people in the UK are civic minded. Thats different from a support network.

A support network means:

1. if a child can't afford piano lessons, the aunt who can afford it steps in (my mum when she was a young accountant; that little niece is now a managing director).
2. if a young person can't afford to buy a house, his parents let him stay rent free at home until he can (so he is never homeless).
3. if an elderly person doesn't have a pension, he moves in with his children and rents out his house

No charity can replicate that kind of support and it shouldn't. This is only possible for families. I wouldn't even call it charity, its efficient resource allocation. Of course people can become homeless in such societies but it is much more rare.in America and UK, a lot of people are a few pay checks away from homelessness and its often because people move out before they have built up a savings net (and there is a social expectation to). Life can be difficult and it is such people who have children in unstable environments and the cycle of poverty continues.

Also kids can be much safer in a more communal society. My Aunt and Uncle were apparently shit parents and neglectful. Other family members made sure the kids were fed, clean and well looked after. In England they would just had a Social Worker telling them what to do. But I doubt it would have been bad enough for them to be taken into care.

Somewhere like London does fit with my mindset. The opportunity feels endless but also there’s so much friendliness and help too. So on my street we know each other and become friendly etc which is nice.

I like the freedom the society offers.

I was born here, and grew up in Aus, only big downside is we live across the world now which isn’t so good in a pandemic.

I don’t know what it’d be like to live in a more collective society as I’ve lived in Aus / U.K. and US - all top the individualistic ones

They do seem to be highly attractive to many though, me included - the big cities at least

I hope the next time someone wanders around with a banner with Defund the Police, someone runs up to them and shoves it up their arse sideways

Better still, they can jet them off to LA to spend a few weeks in the tent cities, so they can get some first-hand experience of their nonsensical utopia

Defund the police does not mean stop the police. It means put money into causes of crime like mental health care.

Defund the police does not mean stop the police. It means put money into causes of crime like mental health care

You can support appropriate mental health care whilst keeping the police properly funded.

The words 'Defund the Police' are self explanatory and relay a very dangerous message

What tosh! Put money into catching those who make society an unsafe place for all of us, processing them and then prison. If they are really mentally ill, then a sanctuary of some sort will suffice.

But the main thing is, my right to wander freely and safely causing no harm trumps the right of anyone, criminal or mentally unstable, to jeopardise that right and turn society into an unsafe and shit place.

I don't give a shit if the fucker who violently assaults me on the pavement is bad or ill because the assault will be the same.

That's it and anyone who thinks a criminal's right comes over that-no matter what the motivation-should take themselves off to L.A and live in what is a dangerous society that has been vividly described on this thread.

Do your do gooding there and good luck to you!

Do you remember where your friend lived in the US?

Kansas. Does that explain it?..

Defund the police does not mean stop the police. It means put money into causes of crime like mental health care

Which is all very well, but those alternatives tend to be long term measures and don't address what defunding the front line leads to in the shorter one

Interesting, too, that we're constantly told it's a lack of funding that's "stopped" so many other services, but the narrative changes when it comes to the police - which perhaps shows the real agenda of the "defunders"

People in the US can end up very mentally ill if they don't get access to meds, or are not sectioned when they should be. I am talking from experience here. It is rare in the UK.
You cant imprison everyone, it costs a fortune. You have to look at prevention as well.

onlychildhamster I hear what you say, and I'm glad it works for you. I just don't think it's workable for most people. That's just the way it is.
How many people live in large enough houses to take in extra members of the family? And many people are divorced from the parents of their children, and have since remarried, and the children are not welcome.
And I know that sounds harsh, but domestic abuse was much more common when people had to stay together. Again, perhaps it's women paying the cost of stable societies.

And honestly the comments on here about the defund the police movement are like Sun headlines. You don't know what is being asked for or why. But you have strong opinions on it.
Places like LA are in such a mess precisely because nothing is done to help people, so they end up thinking they have nothing to lose and turn to crime. People who feel they have nothing to lose are not stopped by the threat of prison.

Let it cost a fortune!

Safe streets should be a priority. My right, my children's right and my elderly parents' right to live in a safe society comes first.

I don't care what sob story someone who knocks me over the head, robs my house, shits on the street has. My right to live safely comes before any rights of theirs.

There will always be bleeding hearts. look what it has resulted in.

I should add as a rider that I don't for one second, think the Defund the Police movement are bleeding hearts.

They have a very different and dangerous agenda and it certainly isn't a movement to put instead put the money into mental health.

I can't believe some people believe-or pretend to-believe that.

They do hope though that if they repeat it often enough, some will swallow it.

Police forces need to change in LA

The relationships with the public needs to change but how can they when too many people are getting killed by the police

Something drastic has to happen and part of the funding is going to support the public which often feels targeted by the police

Police in the states are far more authoritarian, relationships are poor parts of society need rebuilding

It isn’t just about fighting crime it’s about providing services for everyone

@mustlovegin

Defund the police does not mean stop the police. It means put money into causes of crime like mental health care

You can support appropriate mental health care whilst keeping the police properly funded.

The words 'Defund the Police' are self explanatory and relay a very dangerous message

Agree. Words being used correctly is crucial.

I'm sorry if I missed it, but does anyone have any documentary recs for how Covid has impacted America in the socio economic sense? I'm aware of NY stuff as we still have friends there but don't much about the rest of the country.

Lol at the idea that Democrats are useless at running cities.

Democrats have been running cities since cities and Democrats were a thing.

The problem with American cities, states, municipalities, and individuals, is that they all want a first class environment - safe, clean, efficient, etc - but nobody is prepared to pay for it.

There are corporations making billions in profits but paying almost no taxes.

@julieca

And honestly the comments on here about the defund the police movement are like Sun headlines. You don't know what is being asked for or why. But you have strong opinions on it. Places like LA are in such a mess precisely because nothing is done to help people, so they end up thinking they have nothing to lose and turn to crime. People who feel they have nothing to lose are not stopped by the threat of prison.

You are mistaken if you believe you have some better understanding of what "defund the police" really means and that there is some hidden happy agenda to really help everyone.

And this seems like a dangerous and simplistic view with respect to the root cause.

Organized crime have groups are going into pharmacies and wiping out the shelves, because these crimes are no longer prosecuted. That's not caused by people feeling hopeless and won't be resolved with hand-holding and saying "there, there" to the criminals engaging in it. This is directly caused by policy changes by leaders like De Blasio, underfunded, disgusted law-enforcement and prosecutors refusing to prosecute actual crimes.