The situation in LA

[Cheesefiend36]

www.nytimes.com/2021/12/12/us/los-angeles-mayor-race.html

I've been reading with interest that LA has had a terrible time of it since Covid and new anti prison sentence laws which has seen crime go up. I follow somebody who was in LA for a holiday last week and vowed never to go back after seeing the amount of poverty, homeless camps in tourist places, crime rates and a general feeling of not being safe. Lifeless bodies on the side of the road is apparently the norm with no body batting an eyelid

LAPD have recommended that tourists stay away because they can't keep them safe

Is anyone there right now or has been recently that can share their experience?
So much wealth there, how can this be happening?

Do not take responsibility

It's been interesting to read about Proposition 47 in order to explore some of the 'all Democratic cities are terrible' rhetoric on this thread. No California didn't 'decriminalise' theft under $950.

Reading between the lines, there's choices that cities often make about how to make poverty and chaotic lives less visible, rather than doing much about it.

Of course high crime has to do with inequality. There has to be something to steal! But it also has to do with the demographics of inequality. In Singapore/South Korea/Taiwan, the crime rate is very low compared to Western cities because the poor are either pensioners (less capable of violent crime) or young people (who live with family in all circumstances so aren't on the streets even if very poor). Also less likely to get into drugs if under the watchful eye of Mum and Grandma. In the west, this is less common, there is a thread on mumsnet where many PP have said they would not support any BIL or SIL or even MIL . On the other hand, members of my family in Singapore have housed their siblings and their siblings' children when they were in financial need in the past in their 3 bedroom government flats- the kids have gone on to be professionals and one of them has recently bought a condo complete with swimming pool and spa (a far cry from his youth when he had to stay with his aunt as his mum didn't have a roof over her head, she only managed to buy her government flat later on). I shudder to think how he would have done in America. But you can't change culture so in the UK/USA, the government has to step in.

@PermanentTemporary

It's been interesting to read about Proposition 47 in order to explore some of the 'all Democratic cities are terrible' rhetoric on this thread. No California didn't 'decriminalise' theft under $950.

Reading between the lines, there's choices that cities often make about how to make poverty and chaotic lives less visible, rather than doing much about it.

One of the criticisms of Prop 47 is that by reducing so many crimes to misdemeanours it’s made it easier for drug offenders and those who commit e.g. robbery and larceny to feed drug habits to avoid mandated treatment programs. So whilst it’s supposedly enabled funds to be directed towards programs intended to serve individuals with a history of criminal justice involvement and mental health issues or substance use disorders, it’s also removed a vital link which gets them into treatment in the first place. I don’t think the vast numbers of drug addicted homeless people in LA and other cities can be separated from that, tbh.

They defunded and vilified the police...what did they expect?

Be careful of voting for parties that sell you unicorn and rainbows

^This, with bells on

Wasn't there also a bit of an exodus of celebs to Australia during lockdowns?

I hope the Australians don't fall for these self serving preachy clowns (aka celebrities) and their poisonous ideologies. They have managed to destroy the economy plus the social and moral fabric of large areas of the US and want to start all over again further afield until there's nothing left. Scary times

@onlychildhamster they are more collective societies where you help each other out. Britain is a very selfish and individualistic society. I hate how selfish our society is.

[quote julieca]@onlychildhamster they are more collective societies where you help each other out. Britain is a very selfish and individualistic society. I hate how selfish our society is.[/quote]
I’ve lived in a few countries and do like London in particular

Have you lived abroad / Where would you like to live if you could choose?

@MarshaBradyo I have lived abroad too. I think I would like to live in Iceland if I could. But I know I would need to learn the language, which isn't easy.
I am aware every country has pros and cons. But I don't think England is a very nice place to live at the moment. But I am too old and poor to immigrate.

[quote julieca]@onlychildhamster they are more collective societies where you help each other out. Britain is a very selfish and individualistic society. I hate how selfish our society is.[/quote]
We definitely are and I know I definitely am. DH and I were watching a programme the other day and a family had the grandparents living with them...I commented how I couldn't bear that. I know though in lots of cultures, inter generational living is the norm...as is financially supporting relatives.

Whereas here you have multiple people on MN saying a working adult shouldn't pay any rent to her struggling mum, as it is up to her mum to provide for herself financially.

Someone up thread described the situation in the US as Religiosity, which is a better description

I was surprised when 30 years ago an American friend came to stay and brought a copy of his local newspaper with him. It had about 4 pages printing the coming Sunday's sermons

Can anyone explain the link between religion, a sermon and pharmaceutical companies mentioned on this thread?

Whereas here you have multiple people on MN saying a working adult shouldn't pay any rent to her struggling mum, as it is up to her mum to provide for herself financially

I agree. Family members should help each other out as much as possible

@julieca @MarshaBradyo

I live in London and its my favourite place in the world. I love London because of its diversity, its also a microcosm of the world's cultures in one city, some of which are very family orientated. My DH is Jewish and the Jewish community's community spirit has bowled me over at times. Granted this is generally for the people who are more religious, but they have interest free loans, 'banks' which loan out every single household item/clothing under the sun, so many charities. The families help each other out too. I always felt that this was why immigrants thrive so much in Anglo countries as opposed to continental europe- anglo societies are much more individualistic which is fine if you are upper MC but not great if you are poor. A poor immigrant child who has a supportive extended family is so much more likely to succeed than the child of a single mum neglected by the system.

Cohesive family orientated societies tend to be more xenophobic/wary of the outsider. Its just natural; if societies are more insular, they are more likely to 'help their own'. It might be why people vote Brexit, they want their own towns and cities to become more 'white british' because they think it would lead to a more cohesive society. But the UK has always been divided by class so I don't think that would work. There are pros and cons to every culture/society. The Anglo model prizes individualism and freedom- you are more free, but you are also supposed to 'own' your decisions, even if your 'decisions' are heavily influenced by your circumstances so you don't actually have 'freedom of choice'. At the same time, i find that its much more comfortable to be an immigrant in an Anglo society as there isn't the same kind of pressure to be like the natives as everyone's freedom to be themselves is respected. Its why I feel much more comfortable in London than in Germany.

I don’t think intergenerational living can be held up as an example of selflessness tbh. It’s most common in countries with little in the way of a welfare state, so that it’s really your only option if you’re too old, sick or poor to house yourself; and those countries are almost invariably also ones where women are culturally expected to shoulder caring responsibilities for older relatives and the wider family, whether they want to or not. Even where it’s practiced in the UK, it’s mostly among communities where culturally a woman’s responsibility is seen to be to family and home.

Can anyone explain the link between religion, a sermon and pharmaceutical companies mentioned on this thread?

As the author of that post, no I can't. But to me religiosity is a show of religion rather than actually trying to practice the Christian values they supposedly espouse.

@onlychildhamster they are more collective societies where you help each other out. Britain is a very selfish and individualistic society. I hate how selfish our society is.
I don't think that's true at all. All but a few of my friends do voluntary work. There's 72 charities just devoted to helping the elderly in Bristol alone, somebodies got to be helping. And that's just one example.

@ComtesseDeSpair

I don’t think intergenerational living can be held up as an example of selflessness tbh. It’s most common in countries with little in the way of a welfare state, so that it’s really your only option if you’re too old, sick or poor to house yourself; and those countries are almost invariably also ones where women are culturally expected to shoulder caring responsibilities for older relatives and the wider family, whether they want to or not. Even where it’s practiced in the UK, it’s mostly among communities where culturally a woman’s responsibility is seen to be to family and home.

Agreed.

and ComtesseDeSpair is spot on.

@Comedycook my mum is a professional career woman and for most of her married life (28 years) until my grandpa died and my grandma went into a home, they lived together. my grandma did childcare, my mum went to work. this set up meant that my grandparents were able to sell their house to fund the university education of my dad's siblings which enabled them to better their lives.

In another example, my cousin lived with her in laws for years despite having the money to buy her own condo, she let her own mum stay in that condo. She then saved up to buy another condo in the same development so now she has 2 condos- one for her mum and dad, one for herself and her kids and DH. This meant that her mum could stop working and rent out her own flat, so no need to worry about pension or lackthereof.

Notice the government were not involved in any of these living arrangements. In western countries, the government would have had to pay for the uni education/pensions which is great as it gives people independence but at the same time, this does cost money.

sorry to go on about this, but I don't know how anyone who has had their jab can think we are a selfish society. All those people, working tirelessly to get this done!

@Peregrina

Someone up thread described the situation in the US as Religiosity, which is a better description. Nor is it likely to be ordinary Catholics, it's more likely to be the Fundamentalist Right, who can be any denomination.

I was surprised when 30 years ago an American friend came to stay and brought a copy of his local newspaper with him. It had about 4 pages printing the coming Sunday's sermons. I can't imagine any UK paper doing that.

Do you remember where your friend lived in the US?

Because I have been reading newspapers in the US for much longer than 30 years and have never seen a normal newspaper that printed sermons. I don't recall ever seeing a sermon printed in a newspaper, in fact. (Does not mean they were not there, of course)

@onlychildhamster I totally agree with all of that. I lived abroad in a very cohesive culture where everyone had grown up together and helped each other out. It looked wonderful but was very hard as an immigrant.
I think individualistic societies can be better when you are a young adult and don't have kids. You have much more freedom, whether that is to be openly gay, sleep around, etc.
But as soon as you get to the stage where life is a bit harder whether through children, illness or old age, individualistic societies are not as good. There is little support for the tough times.

It disturbing that many of the Liberals in the big cities can't stand living in the mess they voted for and are now moving to conservative areas to get away from the horrors they have created. The trouble is here they are not only complaining about farming practices, such as the smell from dairy farms, the idiots are trying to vote in Liberal politicians to recreate the place they fled from

America is still a lovely place to visit as long as you keep away from anywhere Democrats/Liberals control

Thank you for posting this. It should be an eye opener for some