How do we protect these children? There must be more we all can do!

[AnotherThingToDo]

I’m haunted by these poor children who have to endure this torture. How many more are there who aren’t in the news because they haven’t died?

Experts, people in child-protection roles, people with experience: how can people who feel angry and devastated by this channel this emotion into actually making a difference?

We hear time and time again how resources are limited. Is there more that society can do?

@manysummersago

Nellie - I can quite see that the answer to have more social workers is no bad thing, but by the same token, the ones employed have to do their jobs properly. It doesn’t matter how many social workers there are if they aren’t doing what they need to.

How can they do their jobs properly though? If a single social worker has 30 high risk children to look after that they are supposed to see every week, plus cover for colleagues who are off sick. Probably newly qualified or new to the job because they previous social worker burned out and left in less than a year. Plus paperwork. How can they do the job properly if it is too much to do?

If a social worker feels that they can manage 10 children safely/well, but they have 30, then something has to give.

Mufasa Nobody should have to go through that.

Some of the families that I attended Sure Start with were physically abusive to their children. Or living in a chaotic environment with frequent DV and revolving door style relationships. Several of the families were intermingled (in that there were half siblings in plenty because the same men were going around several women). There was generational abuse. Some were recovering or current addicts. Those were families where it could have gone either way, I honestly believe Sure Start made a difference. In some cases parenting support, in others visibility of the children to authorities and removal.

Of course parents who are seriously fucked up to the point they are torturing children probably won't access these services to begin with. But if social workers have fewer cases to deal with and less intensive cases to deal with they will have more resources to deal with the seriously fucked up cases.

I understand in this case multiple social workers and other professionals signed off saying there was no risk to the child, clearly that was grossly wrong. But it doesn't help just to wave pitchforks and say hang the social workers, hold them responsible. It makes more sense to look at why. Social workers are telling us they have too much work to be able to deal with cases appropriately and effectively, that they are unable to help children in grave danger. Why is nobody listening to that? It sounds like an emergency to me.

We can't report on generational effects of Sure Start even though the children that it helped initially are now adults, because it only ran for ten years really. That's not enough time to see the lasting impacts or a change in communities. But it's not expensive to run. I appreciate that 1.9 billion is a lot compared to a household budget, but government spending in the last financial year was 1053.3 billion. It's a trivial amount in comparison to that. There are countless interventions that would cost very little but make a big impact, instead this is left to charities, 1.9 billion is not trivial to a charity, it's prohibitive.

When I was at uni one of my tutors expressed the opinion that the UK political system is at fault for some of this short term focus on spending and returns, because we tend to have a new government every 8 years if not sooner, and each new government feels it needs to make a stamp by changing decisions the previous government have made, often things which have not yet fully played out. You could have safeguards against that such as allowing governments to set minimum time periods during which certain things must run, or changing the election process to something more like proportional representation.

We don't let adults be tortured in prison.

But we currently let children be tortured on a huge scale.

Everyone needs to sit down and think how can we improve that situation.
I think that there should be mandatory parenting classes. Currently we need a licence to drive , but we don't need to have passed any class to have a child.
There should also be checks on the children at school and at home.

You can vote differently.
You can be prepared to may significantly more tax to fund social services/ social care.
You can be concerned and petition against removal of bursaries for social work degrees/ master's.

And there could be more support provided to parents too.
Maybe a centre where parents can go and get support.
Or they could have a respite centre where children could go on holidays too. To give the parents a break.

If parents are seen to be not coping, there should be a three step system
Step 1: there should be lots of support and help available to the parents.
Step 2: if the parents behaviour worsens, the child should now be checked on every couple of months and serious thought given to his wellbeing.
Step 3: If the parent is severely abusive to the child, anything including starving, hitting, abusing the child. The child must be immediately taken off them

@Batshaver

Brits are weird about children. On the one hand you have people fantasising about all the violent acts they'd carry out on adults who hurt children, while on the other it's perfectly socially acceptable to say that you hate them. It's like children exist in a space removed from other people, in psychic terms, for Brits.

Because Brits are 60 million people, not two people. Hating child killers and possibly wanting them executed is a normal reaction.

Keep schools open.

I don't think it's a coincidence that the abuse ramped up during lockdown. If Arthur was as weak as the video of him in the video carrying his duvet at school, the school could have protected him. Can't stop what you can't see.

People have a choice every few years but vote for lower taxes and a smaller state.

How many on MNs are extremely shocked by what has happened but will vote for further cuts in public services? just as they did at the last By Election.

What is really interesting about this case for me is that is has made me see how men feel.

Women are weaker than men and woman are often abused by men. But if we talk to men about it they will say "not all men", and they will never think that they have to change anything.

Children are weaker than adults and are often abused by adults. But if you try to talk to adults about this they will say "not all adults".

No one wants to see themselves as an abuser.
However you don't have to be literally torturing a child, we are all part of the system that lets this child abuse go on on a huge scale.

Even simple things like how we talk about children. I have heard many women say lately that they "hate children" "they dislike children". Children are often talked about with disrepaect and talked about like they are second class citizens.

. Even if dont actively Carry out abuse on children we need to challenge otber adults who do.

Challenge how other adults talk.
It has become so acceptable to say "I dont like children " (not I don't want children, but I don't like all children).

Challenge how other adults talk
And definitely report if you see bad behaviour to a child.
You might save that childs life.

I’ve been thinking a lot about the hairdresser and what a pp said - maybe on another thread - about being part of a social group where you’re expected to swear and shout at your kids, stick them in isolation for hours, smack them, smoke in their faces.

Starving and isolating and ‘pressure pointing’ (what even is that) a child were sufficiently within the bounds of normal to the hairdresser she allowed it to take place over two fucking days in her house. That’s unthinkable to most of us on here. How do you overcome that?

I was just reading in the times about the head of the social services that looked after Arthur, she was on £130k a year and mainly worked from home, and ofsted had picked them up for referrals being closed too early and concerns over risk not resolved.

One thing that’s always concerned me safe guarding wise is all the kids that are home schooled yet the checks seem to me non existent. That’s one thing that could be tightened up straight away.

@Mufasa1118

Challenge how other adults talk. It has become so acceptable to say "I dont like children " (not I don't want children, but I don't like all children).

Challenge how other adults talk
And definitely report if you see bad behaviour to a child.
You might save that childs life.

We need to make it illegal to hit children, in all circumstances, its not smacking, its using violence to enforce your will on a far weaker human being.

Try "smacking" someone at work because they refuse to tidy up their desk and see where that gets you?

@Shewalksinbeautylikethenight

I’ve been thinking a lot about the hairdresser and what a pp said - maybe on another thread - about being part of a social group where you’re expected to swear and shout at your kids, stick them in isolation for hours, smack them, smoke in their faces.

Starving and isolating and ‘pressure pointing’ (what even is that) a child were sufficiently within the bounds of normal to the hairdresser she allowed it to take place over two fucking days in her house. That’s unthinkable to most of us on here. How do you overcome that?

I’ve been banging on about that in various threads. To me that’s actually one of the most important points in the whole thing- the interaction and lack of action from the hairdresser and her boyfriend. It speaks volumes about the type of circles these people are in and how we will never really tackle child cruelty when people have such low standard of what’s acceptable parenting.

I know it’s disproportionate perhaps but every time I think about the hairdresser and her boyfriend and the neighbour, all of whom dismissed Arthur’s treatment as being within (their) normal ranges of parenting I just feel utter, utter rage.

@Bagelsandbrie

I know it’s disproportionate perhaps but every time I think about the hairdresser and her boyfriend and the neighbour, all of whom dismissed Arthur’s treatment as being within (their) normal ranges of parenting I just feel utter, utter rage.

I agree and yet even if they reported it sounds as though little would have been done.

@FreeBritnee oh I know, but at the same I think it’s a bigger thing than that - people don’t like being judged but sometimes that’s exactly what’s needed to shame people into behaving differently. (I don’t think it would have changed things for Arthur perhaps but on a lesser and larger scale for other children).

They might not have reported. But if they’d said - not going to ask what happened at home but I can’t work with him in the corridor, and sat him down with some pop in front of the tv like most mobile hairdressers do with kids. Even the basic treatment as a human might have helped.

I don't think everyone voting for the left will fix this. As I'm just experiencing with my DD the left has encouraged the institutional capture of schools and organisations under the guise of inclusion and completely thrown safe guarding principles out of the window. Oh and then anyone usually women who questions this are vilified as a bigot.

As others have said the fix for this needs to be multifaceted, no one thing causes these kind of issues.

[quote Bagelsandbrie]@FreeBritnee oh I know, but at the same I think it’s a bigger thing than that - people don’t like being judged but sometimes that’s exactly what’s needed to shame people into behaving differently. (I don’t think it would have changed things for Arthur perhaps but on a lesser and larger scale for other children).[/quote]
Shaming people? that will never work.

Some people parent the way they were parented, they know no different and believe it did them no harm.

Whats needed is education, it was criminal SureStart was disbanded.

I think also- it’s important to remember- that the hairdresser and boyfriend and neighbour didn’t know that reports had been made and ignored. They wouldn’t have known their reports - or lack of them- wouldn’t have made a difference so they had every reason to make that report. If the hairdresser and her boyfriend had rung 999 either during the visit on the 15th / 16th or even after their visit if they didn’t want the confrontation in their own home they would have potentially saved Arthur’s life - it was clear he was in a terrible physical state (the cctv footage of him waking and being so frail was from the morning of the 16th, they back at the hairdressers house an hour after that footage was taken). If police or even an ambulance had turned up at the address and examined him potentially he would have been taken to hospital and examined.

Lots of should haves.

@AndreaC67 maybe shaming is the wrong word. Education yes.

[quote Bagelsandbrie]@AndreaC67 maybe shaming is the wrong word. Education yes.[/quote]
Totally.

I learned so much from NCT classes & books plus a brilliant mum, unfortunately not everyone has access to any of this, 11% of kids leave school unable to read & if you have poor reading skills, few transport options, then all those leaflets advertising such things, may as well be written in Martian.

@Mufasa1118 I'm so sorry to hear your story