How do we protect these children? There must be more we all can do!

[AnotherThingToDo]

I’m haunted by these poor children who have to endure this torture. How many more are there who aren’t in the news because they haven’t died?

Experts, people in child-protection roles, people with experience: how can people who feel angry and devastated by this channel this emotion into actually making a difference?

We hear time and time again how resources are limited. Is there more that society can do?

Just stop recruiting all those terribly well meaning, liberal, mealy mouthed individuals who want to be social workers

That’s quite unpleasant.

Also, clearly we need to recruit people that want to be social workers. Not people that don’t. It needs to be an attractive career choice which it isn’t at the moment. I have children in my school who I have never seen the same social worker twice for as they don’t last beyond a term-something is going very badly wrong and I doubt it’s because they are ‘liberal’ or ‘mealy-mouthed’.

peaceanddove
I think there is a place for that type of social worker. Front line dealing with manipulative parents who abuse their children isn’t the place.
There are many different types of job a social worker can do and you’re right those working on the front line need to be tough and experienced.

I like the concept of circuit breakers. I have never heard that before but it is something I managed to do for my own child. It is really hard and there is not enough support. It is not enough for the non abusive adults in a child’s life to love them. You could be the loveliest mum granny etc but you need to acknowledge that the abuser is abusive and protect the child from him or her.

This is hard. Arthur’s statement saying her grandson would still be alive if her son hadn’t met Emma. No one wants to face up to the fact that their child or their partner is abusive. That is why lots of children with loving relatives end up in care because their family won’t stop them seeing the abuser. A lady in my abuse support group had her children taken into care because she didn’t acknowledge that her partner was abusive. She was lovely and loved her kids.

Campaign to reform the family courts. They placed Arthur with his dad even though he had been abusive. This happens all the time.

A lot of people are not aware of abuse and coercive control. Educate your self about it and teach your children. Report concerns at an early stage. It takes lots of reports for concerns to be taken seriously. It shouldn’t be that way but that is how it is.

@Cassimin

peaceanddove I think there is a place for that type of social worker. Front line dealing with manipulative parents who abuse their children isn’t the place. There are many different types of job a social worker can do and you’re right those working on the front line need to be tough and experienced.

Yes, you're absolutely right and I meant to add that. The mealy mouthed ones should not be on the front line, ever. They can be shifted off to some unimportant department where they can head-tilt and tick boxes to their heart's content, and where their ineptitude won't cost a child their life.

@Howshouldibehave

Just stop recruiting all those terribly well meaning, liberal, mealy mouthed individuals who want to be social workers

That’s quite unpleasant.

Also, clearly we need to recruit people that want to be social workers. Not people that don’t. It needs to be an attractive career choice which it isn’t at the moment. I have children in my school who I have never seen the same social worker twice for as they don’t last beyond a term-something is going very badly wrong and I doubt it’s because they are ‘liberal’ or ‘mealy-mouthed’.

If they're working on the front line in Child Protection then we need to recruit people who actively don't want to listen to any of the abusive parents bullshit, and who actively don't want to give them the benefit of the doubt.

If they're working on the front line in Child Protection then we need to recruit people who actively don't want to listen to any of the abusive parents bullshit, and who actively don't want to give them the benefit of the doubt

We have had that in the past and it didn't protect anyone, children were whisked off into care often on the say so of a vindictive neighbour or relative.

When are people going to realise that we need far far earlier intervention into some families lives?
This needs to be before conception, during pregnancy, early years support. Schools, the Police know who these families are.

It is only through early intervention that we can begin to reduce the number of child murders.

Campaign to reform the family courts. They placed Arthur with his dad even though he had been abusive. This happens all the time.

Arthur went to live with his dad because his mum went to prison. His dad had legal PR. Nothing to do with the courts. The court would only have got involved if the local authority had brought care proceedings saying that his father was not fit to care for him, which sadly they didn’t do.

AndreaC67
It’s very hard to remove children from their parents, just a report from a neighbour wouldn’t make it happen.
The idea of early intervention is great the problem is parents like Arthur had wouldn’t engage.
I used to volunteer with Homestart and all of my clients just needed a little support, none of them were anywhere near this family.
Families like this don’t like to engage as they are scared of social services.
It’s so hard because often these families have a historic distrust of social workers.

There are many different types of job a social worker can do and you’re right those working on the front line need to be tough and experienced.

I think you’ll find the tough, experienced ones are leaving practice because no matter how tough or how experienced, you can’t keep children safe with no resources and impossible case loads.

@Cassimin

AndreaC67 It’s very hard to remove children from their parents, just a report from a neighbour wouldn’t make it happen. The idea of early intervention is great the problem is parents like Arthur had wouldn’t engage. I used to volunteer with Homestart and all of my clients just needed a little support, none of them were anywhere near this family. Families like this don’t like to engage as they are scared of social services. It’s so hard because often these families have a historic distrust of social workers.

It is now and rightly so, i was referring to the past.

So you don't think that had Hughes, when he was supported by the Gran, been deeply involved with social services, that may have avoided this tragedy?
He mets this new woman, she is vetted by SS, flags raised about her as a previous suicide/kids removed, a condition of them living together is weekly visits to the family home & at a local centre.

All this takes money and people but if we want to limit (we can never completely stop) child abuse and murder, then that is what is going to be needed, nothing voluntary about.

By the way, i am glad the sentences are being reviewed as possibly too lenient.

@Drinkingallthewine

As individuals: Put your weight on MPs to properly fund social care. Lobby for more social workers so that their caseloads are manageable. Don't feel scared to report your concerns to the police/SS/ Teacher Don't tell yourself that it's not your business, or it's a snapshot moment, or turn a blind eye.

As social services:
A referral should trigger a full assessment, including a full paediatrician exam. A body injury checklist akin to those for rape cases would help.
An interview with a child without the alleged abuser present by a trained professional.
Any people with prior SS intervention for child abuse/neglect should be red-flagged and subject to unscheduled home visits.

As police:
Don't chicken out of checking out a house because someone's mouthing off at you - if they are comfortable doing that to a copper on the doorstep, spare a fucking thought for the kid indoors.
Don't threaten concerned relatives with arrest for harassment.
Accompany social workers to homes where there's a risk of kicking off.

MP's:
Change the fucking laws so that investigations are centered around the welfare and rights of a child, not the rights /demands of their legal guardian.
Change it so that a parent can legally refuse to send their child to the ex if they have evidence of a child not having a bed, proper food, clothes and bathing facilites.
Stop forcing parents to hand over children to their abusive violent ex. Violence toward the mother of his children IS child abuse in their home.

That would be a start.

Sounds good but arranging multi agency meetings and getting professionals together is a joke, either unavailable, on leave or on the sick.

P So you don't think that had Hughes, when he was supported by the Gran, been deeply involved with social services, that may have avoided this tragedy?
He mets this new woman, she is vetted by SS, flags raised about her as a previous suicide/kids removed, a condition of them living together is weekly visits to the family home & at a local centre.
That probably would have worked.
But as you say the cost would have been too high and local authorities can’t/won’t invest this money.
This tragic, terrible ( can’t think of any words) shouldn’t have happened.
The social workers on this thread should contact each other privately and try to do something to ensure it doesn’t happen again.
Their case loads are too high, they can’t do their job properly. Something needs to be done.
Someone once said to me-
If you always do what you’ve always done
You’ll always get what you’ve always done.
Those of you who have left the service or ones who have worked for years you need to make a change for the new social workers coming through. Things won’t get better without action.

Sorry—-
If You always do what you’ve always done
You’ll always get what you’ve always got!

Sounds good but arranging multi agency meetings and getting professionals together is a joke, either unavailable, on leave or on the sick.

I agree but if it’s legislated and professionals fail to adhere let them face consequences.

@JeffThePilot

Campaign to reform the family courts. They placed Arthur with his dad even though he had been abusive. This happens all the time.

Arthur went to live with his dad because his mum went to prison. His dad had legal PR. Nothing to do with the courts. The court would only have got involved if the local authority had brought care proceedings saying that his father was not fit to care for him, which sadly they didn’t do.

It was reported that he was placed with his dad by the family court so unless that is wrong it is likely that that is what happened. It is highly likely that this case would have some social work involve the given that his mother was imprisoned for murder the documented domestic abuse he witnesses. Just because someone has parental rights does not mean they should have access to a child.

It was reported that he was placed with his dad by the family court so unless that is wrong it is likely that that is what happened. It is highly likely that this case would have some social work involve the given that his mother was imprisoned for murder the documented domestic abuse he witnesses. Just because someone has parental rights does not mean they should have access to a child.

But unless someone had provided evidence that his father was unsafe - which he clearly was but the court would need to see the evidence - it follows that he would go to the other parent with legal PR and the court would not have any say in it. I’m not really sure on what basis the family court would have been involved - who would have applied?

@Cassimin

Sounds good but arranging multi agency meetings and getting professionals together is a joke, either unavailable, on leave or on the sick.

I agree but if it’s legislated and professionals fail to adhere let them face consequences.

As you say, there isn't the will or the money, so it comes back to that we are all basically a load of hypocrites, willing to pour our grief out on MN but not put our hands in our pockets fund social care to the level required (which requires a different Govt) or a significant change of direction.

In an under funded system, people take sick, long term, same in the NHS, another under funded arm of Govt.

But its our fault, it comes back to the same old theme - we vote for this.

Re how sure start centres can help, maybe his mum might have got access to DV help and escaped before she killed the man.

Either way, good well resourced public services do little harm.

The opposite does harm and they are all screaming for help.

As social services:
A referral should trigger a full assessment, including a full paediatrician exam. A body injury checklist akin to those for rape cases would help.
An interview with a child without the alleged abuser present by a trained professional.
Any people with prior SS intervention for child abuse/neglect should be red-flagged and subject to unscheduled home visits.

This completely underestimates the psychological impact that such examinations and interviews have on children. Particularly as the vast majority of referrals (something akin to 90%) are not in need of any support. Plus the sheer number of social workers and paediatricians needed. You might say, better to subject 200 children to unnecessary examinations to prevent the death or serious harm of 1 but who then supports the children traumatised by the assessments? And if the public knew that all referrals would be subject to this, I suspect there'd be fewer referrals.

As social services:
A referral should trigger a full assessment, including a full paediatrician exam. A body injury checklist akin to those for rape cases would help.
An interview with a child without the alleged abuser present by a trained professional.
Any people with prior SS intervention for child abuse/neglect should be red-flagged and subject to unscheduled home visits.

There is absolutely no way to legislate for this. It would be unlawful.

@Naughtynovembertree

Firstly don't make it political, I don't feel for instance the mass abuse of young vulnerable girls that took place in Rotherham, and abuse replicated in towns over the UK would have been uncovered if we were still under a Labour government. We also know Blair and brown apologised for failing on child poverty. I don't think it's a political issue.

The sw didn't examine him properly but they were there.
The sw were feeble and didn't put the child first, they listened to words only and didn't speak to Arthur alone or examine him.
People take huge risks reporting stuff like this, it let's them down as well when they don't investigate properly.
It's no different to when baby Peters sw looked at him in his buggy and a face smeared in chocolate to hide bruises.

So probably, changes in law, putting children not adults at the center of their care and life.
Remembering that whilst some reports are malicious, actually many people agonise about making reports and often loose alot by doing so, also making the the target of potential abuse. So at least investigate properly, a life maybe at stake.

More education to the general population on child rearing, techniques for all sorts of behaviour, and what's normal.

I can relate to this. A couple years back i had to report my sister to SS. I agonised for far too long over it and was bitterly disappointed with how they handled the report.

In short her child was under a supervision order that was being breached every weekend. I was the only person with knowledge of this breach so i begged them to do an unannounced visit/or do some surveillance on a weekend where they would catch them out as opposed to telling them they had receiced a report

so of course they instead asked her to come in for a meeting where they informed her that there had been a report of the conditions being breached. she denied it and it was recorded as a malicious call.

iv now been thrown out the family because of this.

I used to have a lot of respect for SS, sadly this (and various public failings) has caused me to lose faith.

The story of Arthur is truely heartbreaking, i hope he is at peace now.

@SWLouise

Imagine if all the people with solutions on this thread put their hands up to become Social Workers!? No child would ever die at the hands of parents and carers, those supposed to protect and care for them ever again.... Sadly I think not.

Come to work with me for a day, in an assessment team, managing a team of 5 SWs with 160 children open, 20/30 new referrals to be triaged every week (on a good week), where you have to decide which referrals you allocate for asessential (most of which require parental consent), and which have no further action.

Once you've decided threshold you have to find a social worker with space for new allocations. I stare at my spreadsheet looking at it from all possible angles wondering which social worker has the capacity to take another family, which might cry feeling further overwhelmed if allocated another.

Try going into work everyday, dreading what might await you, an awful, heart sinking referral or another resignation letter, sick note or colleague crying and in despair. Whilst at the same time trying to motivate, nurture a team of some of the best, most caring, well intentioned experienced SWs to keep doing what their doing because 'it will get better', 'referral rates can't go on like this forever', all whilst knowing there is no end, no more staff left to replace workers that left, no funding to replace resources long gone and no saviours for children's social care.

The only time people hear about children's social workers is when children die, tragically. No one marches for Social Workers, there is no clap for social workers, thank yous, barely any public acknowledgement.... until people want a SW named and shamed. Child Protection is in a dark corner of public services. People don't want social workers in their families generally, we dont want public recignition etc, just for the public to have some insight into the realities. Sadly a lot of the comments on this thread are not that.

I am proud that where I work visits have continued as normal, SWs have been in and out of schools and houses as usual since March 2020. Unlike some other professions who retreated entirely to virtual visits. Me and my team have strived to keep children safe in the most challenging of circumstances. My heart goes out to the SWs who went to that house, I cannot imagine how they must have replayed it over in their heads, every little part.
I have spent the last two days thinking about how we can talk about these headlines with my team next week as 100% there is always learning to come from such awful, tragic cases, I will await the review for full details but please remember social workers are people too.

👏👏👏

Firstly don't make it political, I don't feel for instance the mass abuse of young vulnerable girls that took place in Rotherham, and abuse replicated in towns over the UK would have been uncovered if we were still under a Labour government
We also know Blair and brown apologised for failing on child poverty.
I don't think it's a political issue

Sorry but it is a political issue if you slash funding for social services and reduce police numbers by 10,000, at the same time, removing almost all public access Police stations.

These are political decisions with consequence.

www.local.gov.uk/about/campaigns/bright-futures/bright-futures-childrens-services/childrens-services-funding-facts

Blair is history, its just a diversion, we cannot undo or change his period in office but for the record, Child Poverty dropped under Blair, he apologised for not eliminating it.

SoTiredoftheStress

But legally they couldn't have done what you asked. Legally they have to inform of the allegation and assess. Only after the assessment has started, and if they have due course can they do what you asked. It isn't that SS acted inappropriately, it's that the law is insufficient.

SWLouise

Cant SWs make government more aware of their concerns?
This sadly is the ideal time to call for change in working conditions.
I’m sure when the social workers woke up that morning they didn’t go out with the intentions of being involved in this tragic case.
We need to find out what went wrong. Inexperience? Caseload? Whatever, their managers need to explore it, admit it and get it out in the public domain so it can be addressed.
Lessons will be learnt will not do.
Years long enquiries will not do.
We need to sort it out now