At wits’ end with DS and tidying!

[Catabogus]

Help me please before I go completely bonkers. I have a 10yo DS who is bright, cheerful, and gets excellent reports from school about his “can-do” attitude and willingness to try hard at everything. So far, so good.

However his bedroom is often an absolute pigsty and he gets very upset when asked to tidy it. He would rather - I’m not exaggerating here - spend 4 hours telling me it can’t be tidied, it’s impossible, it would take days, it’s hopeless, he doesn’t know where to begin etc than just get on and do 10 minutes of tidying.

He has missed a trip out before because he didn’t do the requested 10-minutes of tidying before leaving, and he still didn’t learn. He ended up sitting on the bedroom floor in tears, still not tidying. Whole afternoons have been passed in this fashion. He has been shown how to tidy, and if I go in to help he will reluctantly make a half hearted effort for a few minutes, but only if I’m there constantly encouraging and directing. I have also tried bribery with extra pocket money but it didn’t help - he just sat there saying miserably “I can’t do it, I’m not going to be able to have the money”.

It’s driving me absolutely berserk. His sister is younger and a much more difficult character in general, but the complete opposite in this - she will get on and tidy her toys away quickly and efficiently when asked (ok, when made to). She will even come and help him, but again he will sit there saying “I just don’t see how it can be done” while she tidies round him.

Any suggestions for tackling this greatly appreciated! I just can’t understand how he’s so motivated to try things in general (and a lovely, easygoing lad), and yet so hopelessly defeatist on this.

You could have described my eldest DD aged 7. She literally cannot/will not tidy.
She has a younger sister aged 4 who like your DD is perfectly capable of tidying quickly and efficiently.
I'm really interested to read the responses to this thread OP. You are definitely not alone. It drives me absolutely mad!!

Could he have executive functioning problems? I have autism and adhd which aren’t very obvious except for if something is really untidy, I struggle knowing where to start, and sometimes if it’s really bad I have to ask my mum for help (I’m 38) as I get easily overwhelmed. My mum has a similar problem but hers is due to something else, so we help each other out

@MaryAndGerryLivingInDerry

Have you tried breaking down all the steps for him with instructions and maybe even pictures?

My 12yo has ADHD and for a long time would say “I don’t know what to do!” When asked to tidy his room. I realised “tidy your room” was just too vague a request so I made out a step by step list for him to follow and now he happily cleans his room without being asked!

This is his list

Take dishes downstairs
Empty bin
Put dirty washing in the wash basket
Bring washing basket downstairs
Dust shelves, desk and windowsill
Put books and toys on shelves
Hoover
Mop

My 10 year old DD has ADHD and is exactly the same. Can do it if clearly directed, but if left to it either complains it is too hard, or starts and then gets distracted by something she is supposed to be tidying.

Oh my god this is my son, hard working and tidy at everything and then his room is ... basically the same as your son's! My eldest, scattered in every other way, can't handle sharing with him (just for this reason-in general they chat all night and get on great) and gives out all time time. Is so strange! Great advice here (I'm no use, I broke on Saturday and lashed into it myself)

We made it easier by storing all the toys and getting them out in rotation so that it was easier to keep their rooms tidy.

My son had a massive vintage aluminium flight case that was used as a toy chest so he could ‘bung’ everything in there in a matter of seconds.

We made it a game and I often did my tidying at the same time - you could help him with his room and he could help you with the lounge, then it might not be a chore for him?

I used to sound like a playschool presenter with a very enthusiastic voice and a timer and 'let's see who can put three red things away first' and all manner of shit like that.

If he needs direction, give him direction. If he will do task a with no fuss, and then task b and then task c - you are looking a gift horse in the mouth. If he will not do that you have a different problem perhaps. But personally I can't see why you would bother asking him to do it himself, causing tanrtums and dramas, if he will do it if you direct. Can't you play Simon Says or something and have a good laugh when he picks up the red lego when he shouldn't?

Sounds like he has too much stuff! He needs to declutter. if he's not prepared you will have to do it, secretly if necessary!! Put things in a box for 6 months, if they are not asked for again then you can charity them.

too much stuff = difficult to keep clean and tidy.

OP, I found out when I went for an assessment of some quite treatment-resistant anxiety that had been dogging me for a few years. The psychologist brought it up. It wasn’t on my radar at all until then: I thought I was just awful at organisation and struggled with routine. I can sit and read a book for hours, but if the book isn’t of interest, I can’t stick with it for more than a few pages. There were lots of symptoms I didn’t know where symptoms and thought were just me being totally sh!t at life.

Kallax units or toy boxes.

Photos and labels of what goes in boxes and drawers etc. visual clues really help those overwhelmed with tasks.

Some people do struggle with motor planning and it's not the doing but struggling to know how to start and organise what to do in their mind and execute it.

He's obviously telling you he's overwhelmed and needs you to break it down for him.

What I use to do for ds was have a laminated chart of what to do daily he could check off.

So before school - teeth, wash, dress, etc

After school - shoes on shelf, coats in closet, lunchbox in kitchen and empty rubbish.

After dinner - Lego in Lego drawer, school uniform in x place etc. clean clothes in correct drawer.

Once he'd completed each set he'd get some screen time or something. So he could see each step and what he could get at the end.

My ds is autistic and executive function and motor planning are extremely stressful for him despite being highly intelligent and working very hard.

@Tittyfilarious81

I shall put my hard hat on for this, I'm not judging anyone but I've never allowed my kids rooms to get to this point because i would struggle to leave it be . From a young age I always tidied the room up and they helped me so it never got to this point . Honestly I would go in there and just tidy it up myself and clean so it's done . Once it's done and all sorted go from there so at the end of the day he spends time with you putting things away til he gets used to it .

I have done this SO MANY TIMES! But it only takes him one afternoon of intensive lego building, or examining his “collections” (rocks, fossils, small figures, marbles etc), or hunting for one particular book, and the whole place will be upside down again. It’s incredible how he can create mess.

But it only takes him one afternoon of intensive lego building, or examining his “collections” (rocks, fossils, small figures, marbles etc), or hunting for one particular book, and the whole place will be upside down again. It’s incredible how he can create mess. Mess is a by-product of creativity. Boring people create little mess!

I have worked hard with my children to get them to tidy up but I have never criticised the mess created by constructive activity, which is what you are describing.

@rrhuth

We made it a game and I often did my tidying at the same time - you could help him with his room and he could help you with the lounge, then it might not be a chore for him?

I used to sound like a playschool presenter with a very enthusiastic voice and a timer and 'let's see who can put three red things away first' and all manner of shit like that.

If he needs direction, give him direction. If he will do task a with no fuss, and then task b and then task c - you are looking a gift horse in the mouth. If he will not do that you have a different problem perhaps. But personally I can't see why you would bother asking him to do it himself, causing tanrtums and dramas, if he will do it if you direct. Can't you play Simon Says or something and have a good laugh when he picks up the red lego when he shouldn't?

Yes, he will do it if I direct. In fact he is very willing and will have a go at almost any task if I stand with him and encourage him throughout.

Perhaps I just need to accept this then? It’s just I have a very busy job and another child, so some degree of self-directed ness would be enormously useful.

I think it’s also bring out a fear in me - I was never very self-directed as a child or young adult. I did really well in school, but lost direction when I graduated as I had no one chivvying me or pushing me or telling me what they expected. I still do a lot better now (late 30s!) with instructions and a deadline. I don’t really want that for DS.

@kokokokokokokokoko

Sounds like he has too much stuff! He needs to declutter. if he's not prepared you will have to do it, secretly if necessary!! Put things in a box for 6 months, if they are not asked for again then you can charity them.

too much stuff = difficult to keep clean and tidy.

Yes I think this is it too. I will see if I can (stealthily) de-clutter a bit.

@Firstbornunicorn

OP, I found out when I went for an assessment of some quite treatment-resistant anxiety that had been dogging me for a few years. The psychologist brought it up. It wasn’t on my radar at all until then: I thought I was just awful at organisation and struggled with routine. I can sit and read a book for hours, but if the book isn’t of interest, I can’t stick with it for more than a few pages. There were lots of symptoms I didn’t know where symptoms and thought were just me being totally sh!t at life.

Thanks - this is interesting, and sounds a bit like DS in some ways, particularly as you say it can co-exist with doing well at school.

Patience. Endless patience.

This is massively not my strong point! There is work to do on myself here as well, I can see.

Perhaps I just need to accept this then? It’s just I have a very busy job and another child, so some degree of self-directed ness would be enormously useful.

I think it’s also bring out a fear in me - I was never very self-directed as a child or young adult. I did really well in school, but lost direction when I graduated as I had no one chivvying me or pushing me or telling me what they expected. I still do a lot better now (late 30s!) with instructions and a deadline. I don’t really want that for DS.

I think you are a) projecting b) want this for yourself and b) worrying about how he will be when he is 21 rather than dealing with him now at 10! If he will do it self-directed, do that for a bit more time and see where you are.

IMO either he will grow out of it or never grow out of it. What is the point of worrying about it?

Many children in year 7 are a bit disorganised. By Year 8 they have sorted themselves out. The point is you keep trying to move them on a bit. Maybe you are just a bit premature on this issue with him.

Why not do directing for the next few months, then one day say 'what should we put away next?' and see if he can pick the next thing. I'm all for the path of least resistance unless the fight is necessary (in which case I will have it). My kids are older and I promise I look back at some of the things I made a big drama of and wonder why!

should be a b and c of course

I think you are a) projecting b) want this for yourself and b) worrying about how he will be when he is 21 rather than dealing with him now at 10! If he will do it self-directed, do that for a bit more time and see where you are.

Yes - I think you are exactly right! I AM projecting. I do worry that I need somehow to set good foundations now, so that he will learn to be an organised and self-directed adult.

Perhaps 10 is just too young though, or at least too young for him. His sister’s first words were “no! I do it by myself!” so that’s another kettle of fish altogether.

Argh bold fail. I hope you get the drift.

Sounds like me and I have ADHD. I never know where to start with chores/uni work and I get really overwhelmed to the point of tears.

Not saying your son has ADHD of course, just saying that for some people it's harder than 'just do it’.

@GreenEyeOfTheLittleYellowGod

Sounds like me and I have ADHD. I never know where to start with chores/uni work and I get really overwhelmed to the point of tears.

Not saying your son has ADHD of course, just saying that for some people it's harder than 'just do it’.

Oh bloody hell. I’ve just read this online thing about women with ADHD and I’m now wondering if it’s me that has this, never mind DS!!

I leave notes and cards from the room - it became a bit of a joke.

Nice card and it says
Dear (name of child) I love spending time with you, but I’m really sad today. I really all
Messy - like my hair isn’t brushed etc could you please put away the Lego so I can see my floor and make the bed so it looks nice and put your clothes away neatly when you have done this please reply on the back and blue tack me to your door and the they the room fairy will then have a present for you

Mightily effective here 😂we don’t need to scream and shout the room diary is in charge

Sorry room fairy not room dairy !

@Catabogus

Argh bold fail. I hope you get the drift.

I do get the drift!

One of mine always said 'my-my do it' which is a whole other problem!!!

Something I did when worrying about mine was if they were e.g. 10 I would ask is this normal for the range two years either side i.e. 8-12, if e.g. 11 is it normal for 9-13, and it pretty much always was. They grow up in sudden bursts, so they go 8, 8, 8, 12, 13, 14 on tidying whilst simultaneously being 10, 10, 10 10, 12, 12 on eating. I hope this makes sense! few children tidily go 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13 on every developmental thing.

We project because we want the best for them.

Ps if they don’t listen to the nice room fairy then the room fairy phones their friend the black bin bag monster 😂we haven’t needed to get that far yet as the room fairy rewards with swimming, cinema etc but the black bin monster just comes it and eats at random into a black sack and then hiss in the black
Bin 🤷‍♀️