School having different uniform/behaviour standards depending on child's socio economic background

[BarbaraPappa]

Sorry for the wanky title but I didn't know how to word it! I've name changed as have discussed this with several other people.

Our catchment secondary school has a catchment area which is basically half a very very deprived area and half a few villages which, whilst not affluent, are far more affluent than the deprived area. We live in one of the villages but aren't well off and have an average income, home etc. The school had an Ofsted inspection fairly recently and got a 'Requires improvement', and has been inadequate in the past several times. Our area only has two secondary schools; the other is much better performing but is oversubscribed even within its own catchment area, and so we had no choice really but to use the catchment school. We have DS, who is in year 8 and is aged 13, and DD who went to the school but is now at a separate sixth form.

Basically, I feel that the school is very harsh, and strict in terms of behaviour and uniform for the kids that aren't from the deprived area, and there is never any leeway at all for them. Whilst the other kids get away with a lot more in terms of everything.

For example, the kids that are not from the deprived area get hounded about attendance. If their attendance drops below 98% they get hauled into their year head's office about it. Whilst both my children have told me that there are many children from the deprived area that rarely attend school, and when they do attend they are treated like long-lost war heroes by the staff and praised repeatedly. One girl who was in DD's year even got rewarded with a Dominos pizza sometimes on the days she actually decided to grace the school with her presence.

Regarding behaviour, they are so strict with children that the deem from the more affluent area. My son recently got given two days in school isolation for something which I consider to be fairly minor (I have no objection at all to him doing isolation if the discipline was fair), yet both my children repeatedly tell/told me about kids from the less affluent area that behave badly and get no sanction. On the day my son committed his misdemeanour a girl in his form called their year head a 'fucking whore' and was not faced with isolation or exclusion. A boy in his class recently sprained a teachers wrist on purpose, but again was merrily back in the class and school the next day. The teachers seem to see the less affluent naughty kids as 'lovable rogues' and yet govern the other kids like some military operation. There is also another boy in my DS's class that gets angry regularly and even pushed a table over recently, but again, no sanction and the teacher just ignored it. If your child has any problems with any of the children from the less affluent area then the school will not sort it and will look for ways to blame your child.

Lastly, uniform! The school are so strict on uniform for one half of the school, yet the others get away with anything and everything! I sometimes drop my son off at school and have seen children going in wearing jeans, trainers, no tie, no blazer, and the teachers do not say a word. My daughter was once sent home from school at the gate because he (school, from the school supplier!!) trousers were deemed too short! Yet they happily let other breaches of uniform slide. The boy in my son's class that pushed the table never wears a school jumper and instead wears a Nike one, with no sanctions. My son once had his tie stolen when they had to take them off for PE, and his head of year phoned me and said he had to have a detention even though it was stolen as 'they can't be seen to let someone not have a tie'. When I queried the blatant lack of uniform from other children she said 'you need to understand that people have different financial circumstances and can afford different things'. So clearly the message is ; if the school think you can afford to buy proper uniform, then your child gets punished for not having it. If you are very poor, your kid can wear anything and everything.

I am getting so pissed off with the general unfairness of it; I'm happy for rules, and uniform and all the stuff that goes with it, but how is it fair to enforce it to half the school and not to others? I'm thinking of making a complaint to the school governors but I don't know if this would achieve any change at all?

You sound really unpleasant, OP.

You are getting half a story, second hand, from your kids.

You have NO idea what the individual circumstances of children are. schools are increasingly forced to be a “frontline service” for children, in the absence of CAHMS and social services support, and it sounds like your child’s school is stepping up to fill gaps that other agencies aren’t or can’t.

Its rare to find a school where children’s individual needs - over which kids have 0 control, given they’re, you know, children and entirely not at fault for the challenges, failings or lack of capacity of their parents- are met with compassion, empathy and individualised care.

If you don’t like it, find another school for your kids. The Michaela School might be to your liking.

OMG do you understand how hard life is for some of these kids and that them even setting foot in a school is a major accomplishment that day?

I would imagine that there is a lot here that the teachers and staff are aware of that your children are not aware of. For example they might be less strict on uniform if the parents can't afford to buy the uniform or can't get it washed/are living chaotic lives. The children may have sensory issues or other special needs. They might not make a big deal out of it because the child might be on the verge of stopping attending school.

For attendance there could be school anxiety, mental health issues etc which make it very difficult for a child to attend - and they would obviously be very encouraging when they manage to attend. The girl at my school who hardly ever showed up was suffering from an eating disorder, for example.

The behaviour issues also sound like (poorly managed in some instances) special needs. The same punishments might not be suitable for every child, and they won't be broadcasting those reasons to the whole class.

Just be thankful that your children have a warm and unchaotic home, all the uniform they need, involved parent to support their education and no SEN. Teach them to get on with their own education and school experience and pay less mind to others'. Speak to the school only if there is something happening that affects your own child's education, and leave the rest alone.

Blimey OP, sounds like your children's school don't actively punish children from poor and deprived backgrounds because they can't or struggle to meet some standards and even worse they actually help them and treat them like human beings with the focus being on supporting other needs so they can actually learn something and get an education?!
How awful!

If I were you I would be glad that the school expects more of your child. Dont compare to others. You should be glad they have rules that apply to your child and they dont let him do whatever he wants. He will only profit from this in the long run.
Teach your children to focus on themselves and not others.

The OP’s phrasing is a red herring. The point is, the school is openly applying policies in different ways to different children and this is causing a sense of injustice. It’s likely an academy chain. To be honest, it sounds like a sink school close to me and there is no way I’d send my children there. The staff are more concerned with uniform standards than the education of the children in their care. It’s tragic really.

OP please take note of the responses here and reflect on your judgments of deprived children.

OP I think its difficult when your own kids seem not to be getting the attention or passes that these kids appear to have but they are not your kids and probably never had half of what your kids have, A warm.loving stable home enviroment is what you provide that these kids could probably only dream of, I do understand in a way what you are saying,in my case my daughter was bullied by maybe one of the tyoes of children you describe and all I saw was the tip toeing around this child while my child was left to hack it,However this was a vulnerable child who simply knew no better,who saw my daughter as very privelidged when she wasnt and it lead to jealousy and nastiness and all manner of other things,In part school I felt was to blame as they never confronted this child as she was vulnerable and allowed the behaviour to continue way more than it should have done,I believe they let my daughter and the other girl down too,being vulnerable did not excuse her behaviour but school were fearful to do anything,and that was not right, i remember one day when I pressed for action and was told the other girl had not been spoken to at all,I was told you cannot call a child a bully or say they are showing signs of bullying behaviour,the school tried to turn this kid into a victim, That had nothing to do with being vulnerable at home it had to do with school teaching good practices hence why I thought both girls in the end were badly let down, I dont apologise for what my kids have at all its what we work for and how our family works but when I look around I see more and more kids in need of support from school as they are not getting it from home, Be generous and be glad your kids are ok due to you ,

Agree with many previous posters. Couple of examples from my own experience:

Student who never did her homework for my subject which she took at GCSE. She had seven siblings living in a three-bed house, I imagine with no kitchen table to sit at, no space to call her own at the age of 16, no one with time to support her. It's amazing she was at school with a pen in her pocket tbh. I recall we had to go and get her up on the morning of her French exam. She got a good grade in the end.

Two lads in my form who were constantly getting points for poor behaviour. I pledged I would buy them the chocolate bar of their choice if they could stay point-free for a week. When they did it they were so delighted. Not really fair? Well no, but the students who rarely or never got points didn;t have the same sort of chaos in their lives as these two. That's not fair either.

Another student in my form was late every day. Did I mark her late? No, because I knew the reason was that she had to drop her younger brother at primary school as mum lived elsewhere, dad had gone to work and they couldn't afford breakfast club. So older sibling missed five minutes of registration most days and I turned a blind eye. So shoot me.

OP you really (really) don't know what is going on for other children. Just make sure your own are doing the right thing, and be thankful for the chances they have.

@Foolsrule

The OP’s phrasing is a red herring. The point is, the school is openly applying policies in different ways to different children and this is causing a sense of injustice. It’s likely an academy chain. To be honest, it sounds like a sink school close to me and there is no way I’d send my children there. The staff are more concerned with uniform standards than the education of the children in their care. It’s tragic really.

Where on earth have you got that they are more concerned about uniform than education standards. I suggest you, as well as OP have a read of all the examples many of us have given on here and you also, should stop being quite so naive and judgemental.

@makelovenotpetrol - where on earth? I’d say the penultimate paragraph of the OP 🙄 Maybe it’s you who should learn to read and stop being so condescending.

@Foolsrule

The OP’s phrasing is a red herring. The point is, the school is openly applying policies in different ways to different children and this is causing a sense of injustice. It’s likely an academy chain. To be honest, it sounds like a sink school close to me and there is no way I’d send my children there. The staff are more concerned with uniform standards than the education of the children in their care. It’s tragic really.

I would imagine that it's up to the parents to explain why the rules might be different for some children, and to help foster a sense of perspective.

[quote Foolsrule]@makelovenotpetrol - where on earth? I’d say the penultimate paragraph of the OP 🙄 Maybe it’s you who should learn to read and stop being so condescending.[/quote]
Yes. Plenty of people including have explained why they may not be treating all children the same with regards to uniform and everything else mentioned.

I'm not being condescending, I'm explaining the reality of the situation. Which you and OP don't seem to get.

Some of these posts are overly harsh ive experienced similar before

not in terms of poor/deprived but quiet, placid children being held to much higher standards and also forgotten by the wayside in comparison to much more disruptive children. it IS frustrating and IT DOES teach some children that life is about shouting the loudest regardless of is youve anything of use to actually say, it's a difficult situation xx

@Vanishun

Christ OP. How embarrassing for you. I can't actually believe what I'm reading.

But hey there's a simple solution! Ditch your job, live in the shit bit of town, either go on benefits or minimum wage, don't feed or talk to your kids at home, and then school can step in a bit more. Hurrah!

Yes, god forbid the school would cut kids some slack when they know those kids can't afford the uniform and have significant struggles at home.

You sound bloody awful, OP.

@makelovenotpetrol - I absolutely do. However, I don’t appreciate your calling my comprehension skills into question. You might want to try proofreading before you post.

I doubt any of the good attenders who are on track to do well would want to swap lives with the ones who need additional support.

Exactly. You are lucky, OP, to have such little experience or awareness of what life is like for so many children.
An achievement that is no effort at all for your DS is close to impossible for some children, due to their home situations. And yes, some of them absolutely do need to be celebrated for getting into school on time/at all.

Seriously, you need to tell your son to be grateful for his comfortable home, security, clothing, food and parental support. If he got a glimpse into some of his schoolmates lives, no way would he want to swap.

I seriously doubt the teachers have memorised every child’s address. It’s much more likely that the children your son and daughter are mentioning have special circumstances that the school know about.

Would you want a child that the school to send home a student who they know is a child carer/has recently been removed from their parents/ has recently been bereaved/ has any other extenuating circumstance?

Fair doesn’t mean treating everyone the same.

My friend who is retired was a school attendance officer who did home visits. She said some of the circumstances people lived in were almost unbelievable. She spent a lot of her own money buying children things.

I remember watching a documentary many years ago about young carers. The eldest daughter who was about 13 was caring for her registered blind parents and younger siblings, they had special needs to some extent, she talked about how she wanted to kill herself. They kept on having children regardless of the cost to their actual children.

Let’s be honest this is part of the reason some people prefer private education.

There are some kids where school is the only safe, warm, welcoming, place to be.
Yes, they may not be in the right clothes, but sending them home for misdemeanors is sending them to a cold, unwelcoming place at best, but often abuse.
Be grateful your children arent on the lists where you would do anything to protect a vunerable young child, because the slivers of their life you know about are not anything you would wish on your worst enemy.

[quote Foolsrule]@makelovenotpetrol - I absolutely do. However, I don’t appreciate your calling my comprehension skills into question. You might want to try proofreading before you post.[/quote]
Nope. I am definitely calling your comprehension into question.

Your post sounds ignorant and judgemental.

You have no idea op

I'm deeply embarrassed for you, OP, and your naive, self-involved bitchery.

Although as PP said, hope is not lost! If you really apply yourself to neglecting your kids, school will probably stop worrying about their uniform too!

For example, the kids that are not from the deprived area get hounded about attendance. If their attendance drops below 98% they get hauled into their year head's office about it. Whilst both my children have told me that there are many children from the deprived area that rarely attend school, and when they do attend they are treated like long-lost war heroes by the staff and praised repeatedly. One girl who was in DD's year even got rewarded with a Dominos pizza sometimes on the days she actually decided to grace the school with her presence. This comes across as so bitter and meanspirited.

You do not know the whole picture and you know very few people in the whole school.

I have never given a second thought to what shoes another child is wearing or what other people's attendance is, or what treats others are getting.

I think you sound very moany tbh, not a great example to set to your kids.