Aphantasia - I have it and have questions for people who don’t!

[Aphantasia]

For anyone who doesn’t know what aphantasia is, it’s not being able to mentally visualise imagery. I only recently found out that 99% of people can actually see things in their minds eye, I can’t, at all! I always thought it was just a figure of speech when people said things like ‘picture this’ or that when people meditated they could actually close their eyes and see beaches and sunsets or whatever. I have never been able to see anything when I close my eyes, just blackness, can’t see my loved ones faces or relive any memories visually. I imagine in concepts and can feel the shape of things and remember details that I can describe in words but not see.

But… here’s my question. I’m an artist, and I can sit down and draw from my imagination pretty much anything I want but why, if you can see things in your minds eye, can’t the 99% of the population that can visualise not sit down and draw things perfectly accurately from memory? My husband is crap at drawing, like if I said, draw a giraffe, he’d draw some god awful looking creature that looks like it should be put out of its misery!

When you imagine imagery in your minds eye, is it complete? Can you see every detail or are there blurry bits to fill in for the details you never quite noticed before?

@saraclara that just made me tear up a bit, my died died in a car accident when I was in my twenties and I can’t see his face, I remember once waking up from a dream which felt intensely vivid where I could see his face and was reaching out to touch it as I woke up. When I woke I had the crushing realisation that I was only dreaming that I could dream his face and couldn’t actually see it at all. It’s the one thing that makes me really sad about not having any visualisation. I can’t see my kids faces, I can’t play through their faces from baby hood up to where they are now, I’d love to be able to do that, they’re beautiful children and I love their faces and can easily gaze at them for ages but can’t recall their faces to mind when they’re not with me

Yes, I believe different sounds have different shapes and colours. It varies for each person. I have grapheme-colour synesthesia, so I see letters and numbers in certain colours; they kind of hang there in front of me. There are lots of different types. I have a couple of others too. Synesthesia is basically a combination of senses.

So when you’re reading images don’t pop into your head? When I read it’s non stop images forming over and over, like a tv programme. I can see everything from the author’s descriptions, clothes, places etc For example next day I can return to the book and characters faces, homes and so on are immediately in my mind etc
If you have this aphantasia you see nothing when reading???
What about daydreaming? Imagining you’re on holiday, have won the lotto, imagining a scenario in work- do you not see yourself in the meeting or the shop cashing the ticket or on holiday at all?
I always was told I had a vivid imagination, are you imaginative then? In your art works? Are they abstract , I find it hard to comprehend or respond to abstract paintings. Is it because these are more based on feeling other than a visual representation of imagery from real life?
Amazing how the mind works. Thank you for sharing

I don't actually have to close my eyes to picture a scene, or play something like a video with movement etc. I only knew some people couldn't do it though from a thread about it on here a few years ago.

The drawing thing is a skill. Some like yourself are naturally good at it. Others will struggle to accurately draw an object that's right in front of them. Translating what you see, internally or externally, onto paper is a different skill/ability to being able to visualise something in the first place.

Memories aren't always good and dreams are sometimes nightmares. Being able to visualise things can be a curse as well as a blessing, depends on the person and what they're visualising.

The way your mind works is why so much thought goes into presenting homes for sale. So many people can't imagine the sellers stuff gone and their own stuff there instead. They just can't see it. Me, I've redecorated with wallpaper I don't know exists, installed imaginary furniture in a style of my choosing, decided the size patterns and colours of the rug needed for the floor. All within 20min of setting foot in the place and whilst simultaneously talking to the seller/agent, even if it's currently rammed to the ceilings with someone else's crap. Then I move in and go on a mission to source the things I saw in my mind's eye.

[quote Aphantasia]@saraclara that just made me tear up a bit, my died died in a car accident when I was in my twenties and I can’t see his face, I remember once waking up from a dream which felt intensely vivid where I could see his face and was reaching out to touch it as I woke up. When I woke I had the crushing realisation that I was only dreaming that I could dream his face and couldn’t actually see it at all. It’s the one thing that makes me really sad about not having any visualisation. I can’t see my kids faces, I can’t play through their faces from baby hood up to where they are now, I’d love to be able to do that, they’re beautiful children and I love their faces and can easily gaze at them for ages but can’t recall their faces to mind when they’re not with me[/quote]
Oh that's so sad. I'm sorry that you, too, lost your dad so young.
I hadn't thought about what it will mean for my daughter if she has children. But yes, she would be in the same position as you I'm sure.

I find it fascinating that some people CANNOT imagine that other people cannot form images in their mind, and think that they must be mistaken.

Some people can't form visual images, and it is a known condition called aphantasia. It isn't because they are describing what happens inside them incorrectly, although I admit there are some people on this thread who seem to think that it is something to do with seeing black when their eyes are closed. Which is what everyone sees when their eyes are closed, obviously!.

The word imagination literally means to form images. To picture. People who cannot form visual images, form word descriptions or feeling descriptions instead. They 'imagine' without images. They have no mind's eye.

I would love to know more about people who have no inner narrative, myself...

@Elphame pm’ed you!

This is something I’ve been really curious about since I first learnt of aphantasia. I can see things in my minds eye but not in great detail at all. I’ve always been quite good at drawing things that I see in front of me. But I can’t draw out of my head at all. Like I could draw a really good likeness of a close family member if they were sitting in front of me, or I had a photo to copy. But I really couldn’t do it otherwise. I always thought artists must have a much better and clearer “minds eye” than I do. I find it fascinating that the OP doesn’t have that at all but is an artist. It’s amazing how our minds and brains work.

I don't understand, the scenes in films where people imagine/daydream/remember things, for some people it actually plays out like a little film?
I paint. Nothing fancy, but I just know the shapes I want, do it and it either comes together or it doesn't. What I guess is my minds eye is the equivalent of having another tab open in your browser but in the background so you know it's there but can't see it. That's it right? Not like, two tabs open at the same both taking up part of the screen?

@Haffiana no inner narrative! Now there’s a thing, that’s literally all I have 😂

In terms of detail, I think in detailed pictures/videos. It's constant. As a child I had no technical skills or knowledge and no natural talent for art. I was a very frustrated artist! My mental images were amazing but my physical creations "looked like a child did it".

I'm fascinated by all this. I don't have a great mind's eye but I can picture a cake or my kitchen. I struggle with people but I am face-blind, and that has messed me up socially as long as I can remember. I could do a cat but probably not my cat....

I dream the most complicated and detailed dreams and I definitely see things/people in my dreams, and often remember them the next day. But I only remember the facts, I can't visualise what I saw. Last night I was at school with DD and her drama teacher was George Best, but then he was Sly Stallone. I know those things but I can't see him in my recall to know which he actually was. (I remember she was mortified having her Mum in her class.....).

@JaninaDuszejko I also wonder about the 'internal monologue' stuff. I am an aural learner and I always hear everything in words in my head, 24/7. Well - not everything but the key text - although of course I'm aware of 50 other things going on at the same time. But my husband and kids don't, they see their life in pictures. It's all so weird......

Someone mentioned autism and I always thought that maybe that was why my family had no internal monologue (DH and DS anyway) - but there was another thread on that a while back and it seems half the population don't. I can't get my head round it......!

I admit there are some people on this thread who seem to think that it is something to do with seeing black when their eyes are closed. Which is what everyone sees when their eyes are closed, obviously!.

This does seem to be a source of a lot of confusion. No one sees images on a ‘screen’ in front of them when they close their eyes.

@Bentoforthehorde

I don't understand, the scenes in films where people imagine/daydream/remember things, for some people it actually plays out like a little film? I paint. Nothing fancy, but I just know the shapes I want, do it and it either comes together or it doesn't. What I guess is my minds eye is the equivalent of having another tab open in your browser but in the background so you know it's there but can't see it. That's it right? Not like, two tabs open at the same both taking up part of the screen?

Yes to the video playing! And no to the tabs. It's two open at once and I can see both simultaneously. Like watching two TVs showing different programs and flicking your eyes between the two, or having the TV's right next to each other and watching one mainly, with the other watched mostly in my peripheral vision.

@Bentoforthehorde

I don't understand, the scenes in films where people imagine/daydream/remember things, for some people it actually plays out like a little film? I paint. Nothing fancy, but I just know the shapes I want, do it and it either comes together or it doesn't. What I guess is my minds eye is the equivalent of having another tab open in your browser but in the background so you know it's there but can't see it. That's it right? Not like, two tabs open at the same both taking up part of the screen?

Yes, it's like a film playing in my head. I'm writing this and also seeing in my mind's eye a catwalk fashion show. I can see whole scenes of TV shows as though I'm watching them on TV, or conjure images if people describe something to me.

It’s interesting. I don’t think I have it but nor can I create clear images in my head. It’s a bit like having a picture of something just out of reach of my eye line - I absolutely know what I’m visualising but I can’t actually see it. I’d love to be able to close my eyes and actually be overwhelmed with a vivid imagine of being at the beach, but what happens instead is I see black but that thought/visualisation/recollection is there, but I’m not seeing it in the sense that I see things with my eyes when they are open.

That said, I have very vivid dreams (when I do remember them).

I am not discounting anyone’s accounts as I do think it’s likely we all experience things differently, but I also think a lot of this comes down to not having common language for this. When I tried above to describe what I actually see (for want of better word) I couldn’t find the right word for it. So what I think I’m describing could be entirely different to what you think I’m describing.

@bookworm14

I admit there are some people on this thread who seem to think that it is something to do with seeing black when their eyes are closed. Which is what everyone sees when their eyes are closed, obviously!.

This does seem to be a source of a lot of confusion. No one sees images on a ‘screen’ in front of them when they close their eyes.

Ok so you all really just seeing blackness? I'm not. There's shades of lighter and darker, movement of colours like a kaleidoscope effect (blood through the veins? IDK) and it's not just grey/black, it's purple tinged or beigey or white bits. With light outside my closed eyes, whether artificial or sunlight, it's mostly khaki but also red and orange.

But yeah the mental image/pictures/videos has nothing to do with this. Those happen just fine with my eyes open.

@bookworm14

‘Mind’s eye’ doesn’t mean you close your eyes and see images floating in front of you. It means literally picturing things in your brain. It’s very hard to explain to someone who doesn’t experience it!

Yes, I don't have to close my eyes to see images in my mind's eye. And they are not necessarily stills. They are like a film or a movie. It might not be a bad thing Op, you are protected from painful visual memories. It can also mean that you don't fear things that other people fear. For eg, I often get horrible images in my mind's eye of horrible monsters I have seen in horror films. (Which is why I try not to watch scary films!!)

Thank you OP, I’ve learnt something today — should have realised Ihave this condition long ago but just sort of thought others were the same as me. All the more surprising because I also have prospagnosia(face blindness) and synaesthesia. I washing my30s before I realised others didn’t experience letters and numbers in colour and in my 60s before I realised I was face blind. Fortunately I can recognise family members and close friends after I’ve known them for a reasonably long time . So embarrassing not recognising work colleagues and acquaintances but at least Ican now explain that when I next meet them that I may not recognise them.
People I’ve known a long time can be brought to mind as a very fleeting image that flickers through and is gone. I never see faces in my dreams — I just “know” who the people are without seeing them. In fact I don’t see anything in clear detail.
What strange and wonderful things our brains are!

For me, it's like a dark scene with strobe lights. So I can sort of see things very briefly but I can't hold the image in my head.

I've always been really worried about witnessing a crime because I simply can't describe someone's face. I met 4 teachers today at parents evening and I could tell you what sex they are, colour and general shape of their hair and skin and if they wear glasses.

That's it. I could identify them in a line up but I just couldn't do a photo fit.

@Bentoforthehorde

I don't understand, the scenes in films where people imagine/daydream/remember things, for some people it actually plays out like a little film? I paint. Nothing fancy, but I just know the shapes I want, do it and it either comes together or it doesn't. What I guess is my minds eye is the equivalent of having another tab open in your browser but in the background so you know it's there but can't see it. That's it right? Not like, two tabs open at the same both taking up part of the screen?

"I don't understand, the scenes in films where people imagine/daydream/remember things, for some people it actually plays out like a little film?"

Yes, I always thought it was like that for everyone! It's blown my mind that not everyone sees in their mind's eye or has internal monologues.

When I watched the queens gambit it blew my mind, that scene when she’s playing chess in her minds eye and maps out all the moves on the ceiling, utterly stunning, if I could do that I would literallly feel like a superhero!

This is so interesting. I can 'see' imagery, in as much as I can remember what a beach looks like. It's not a photorealistic picture in front of my eye, but I have a sense of yellow sand and blue skies and can fill in details I focus on.

Similarly I can call to mind what the 'feel' of walking on wet sand is like, and the wind in my hair and sun on my face.

I can't do anything with sound though. I can't recall conversations that were had, or what people's voices sound like. I don't have sound in my dreams. I can just about imagine music I know well, but I sense it more as a pattern of rising and falling shapes than sound. Weirdly I have perfect pitch and can read/play music easily. Conversely I'm terrible at drawing/art even though I'm clearly more visually oriented.

I don't think it's just a difference in the way people explain their experience either (although it clearly adds to the confusion). I can extrapolate what having no mind's eye is like as sound just doesn't exist inside my head. I can't imagine what imaging sound would be like though, even though I can do it for my other senses.

Do other people have no sound? Or do people with no minds eye have sound instead?

From this discussion and the visualisation exercise website, I seem to have both a strong visualisation and narrative mind. I know I always lived in another self-created world when I was a child as I found reality both boring and often distressing. So I left it, mentally that is. Do others here also have a strong smell memory? EG, visualising my father I can see his height, face, hair, clothes and typical body positions but also the smell of his hair, skin, clothes and if I think of it how it changed from when he smoked to when he had stopped, similarily with the seasons as he worked outside. And with things like visualising a storm , I can smell the electricity, the trees and grass and the rain on them. And yes that kind of visualising is with eyes open although it can obliterate what is actually around me. When I return to bed after having vivid dreams it feels like the smell of the dream is still there if I could only recapture it. It's like the dream is both there and not there. It's from the mind but imprinted in the body.