Aphantasia - I have it and have questions for people who don’t!

[Aphantasia]

For anyone who doesn’t know what aphantasia is, it’s not being able to mentally visualise imagery. I only recently found out that 99% of people can actually see things in their minds eye, I can’t, at all! I always thought it was just a figure of speech when people said things like ‘picture this’ or that when people meditated they could actually close their eyes and see beaches and sunsets or whatever. I have never been able to see anything when I close my eyes, just blackness, can’t see my loved ones faces or relive any memories visually. I imagine in concepts and can feel the shape of things and remember details that I can describe in words but not see.

But… here’s my question. I’m an artist, and I can sit down and draw from my imagination pretty much anything I want but why, if you can see things in your minds eye, can’t the 99% of the population that can visualise not sit down and draw things perfectly accurately from memory? My husband is crap at drawing, like if I said, draw a giraffe, he’d draw some god awful looking creature that looks like it should be put out of its misery!

When you imagine imagery in your minds eye, is it complete? Can you see every detail or are there blurry bits to fill in for the details you never quite noticed before?

Oh thank you for this thread!!!! I think I have it!!

So when someone tells me to imagine an apple if I shut my eyes then it’s just black but it’s like I can imagine what an aple looks like but somewhere in the back of my mind - but I can’t see it as such - I could draw if and I have a concept of it - but it def feels like it’s happening in the back of my brain and I can still only see black - what does that sound like to people?????

Oh there we go - I’m exactly like the poster just before me!!

@JedEyeyes I can tell you exactly where everything is in my bathroom, but only because I designed it and chose everything I think. So rather than recreating it visually and looking at it I can think, well my bathroom is a room, it’s got a door, it’s that stupid door I hate that we inherited with the house but I asked the builders to change the way it opened because it knocked into the glass shower enclosure the way it was, I keep meaning to get round to changing it because I hate that it’s a horrible 70s firedoor, we painted it white because it was so ugly. Love the door handles though because they’re so retro and teardrop shaped.. etc etc so it’s all dialogue rather than visual

If I asked you to think of a flower, then asked what colour the flower you thought of was, would you genuinely be unable to answer?

Can you think of Boris Johnson with black hair? A donkey riding a unicycle? A wedding cake?

When I picture those things they're not photorealistic, and I couldn't draw them with any accuracy. But I could say that Boris was in the House of Commons, the donkey was a cartoon and the cake had bride and groom figurines.

@Somebodylikeyew

I’m honestly baffled. Maybe i have it too!

I have always found this concept bewildering. Of course I can only see black when I shut my eyes, what else would I see?

If I think of a bluebell I know what one looks like but I don't "see" an image of it.

And no matter how clearly I see it, in my imagination or in real life, I can't draw it!

@FFSFFSFFS

Oh thank you for this thread!!!! I think I have it!!

So when someone tells me to imagine an apple if I shut my eyes then it’s just black but it’s like I can imagine what an aple looks like but somewhere in the back of my mind - but I can’t see it as such - I could draw if and I have a concept of it - but it def feels like it’s happening in the back of my brain and I can still only see black - what does that sound like to people?????

It sounds like you do have a mind's eye, just a weak one. I have a strong mind's eye but it's still black when I close my eyes. I don't see the images behind my eyes, it's like in the back of your brain as you describe.

It's strange, I can't visualise what people look like in real life but I can visualise a picture I've seen of them

@ofwarren

I can see images perfectly in my mind but that doesn't mean I can control my hands to replicate that image.

Exactly.

Same with music. I can remember tunes and songs word and note perfect.

But I wouldn't inflict my singing on anyone!

@Itsnotover

Did anyone with aphantasia on this thread feel baffled as a child when people told you to count sheep if you couldn't sleep?!

Haha yes!

I only discovered this about about a year ago.

DH was driving, in my home city where I drive every single working day. All around it. We were going home and there was an accident (we don't live there) and I was attempting to give him directions

As usual we ended up having a tiff becuase I always give instructions too late (e..g go left at this turning, as we are at it)

It was only then after much arguing that we realised I had it. When he kept saying "just picture the route" and I kept saying "what on earth are you on about? Picture it? How? I just know as I approach that I'm where I need to be to turn my indicator on etc. Etc"

I know the journeys, I just can't plan them.

Or decorating...I've handed the reigns to him completely. We discuss colour schemes etc but after that....it's all him. I cannot imagine/see the final finished image.

Dream vividly. Write beautiful descriptive prose.

Cannot see it in my brain. I get a half second image, that is already disappearing as it arrives.

Thanks am still unsure of other people really see stuff injtheir heads of or that’s just how they describe stuff. I do t. But I can draw stuff in a simplistic Way. So I hunk of you do t see stuff In Detail then you can simplify it and draw it.

@MeltedButter

Thats so interesting. I'm quite a visual person.

Sometimes I don't think with words though. It's hard to explain but it's like what happens before the words are formed but then I never form them. I don't see images when I think without words either though.

Could have written this! And it’s what I mean when I mentioned a presence. Thinking about it, could it be some kind of feelings?

[quote Aphantasia]@NoSquirrels but i can’t picture it that’s the point! I can describe it because I remember the observations I’ve made in the past when looking at it but there’s nothing visual there. I used to know a girl who was registered blind and had very limited sight who could see sounds. There’s a name for it but I can’t remember, but she used to describe thing like what the sound of an ambulance siren looked like. She said I appeared in the lower left quadrant of her vision as a red jagged shape that pulsed with the pitch of the siren. I have no idea of what it would be like to experience sounds visually, same way I have no idea what it would be like to mentally visualise I guess[/quote]
This is synesthesia OP, which I have! There are different types. Fascinating thread.

@Mustreadabook

Thanks am still unsure of other people really see stuff injtheir heads of or that’s just how they describe stuff. I do t. But I can draw stuff in a simplistic Way. So I hunk of you do t see stuff In Detail then you can simplify it and draw it.

Oh no I definitely see it.

Things I "see" in my mind's eye are as though they are right in front of me. As clear as I can see the bedside table next to me. I can close my eyes and watch a video in my head of the drawer to the bedside cabinet opening.

All images in my mind's eye are as though they are in a picture frame, with black around the outside of the frame.

[quote Aphantasia]@XenoBitch no none at all[/quote]
Isn't that normal? I close my eyes and I just see black.
The only time I do see things when my eyes are closed is if I am hallucinating, which is terrifying as you can't make the images go away.

Ah so minds eye is different to when people can properly visualise (ie don’t see black but see something)??

@OneWildNightWithJBJ that’s it yes! It must be incredible being at concerts!! Do different types of music have very different aesthetics? Like is Bach geometric and lavender and orbital concentric shapes in electric colours?

I only discovered I had this when I went to a meditation group for a few weeks and thought everyone just pretended to visualise things. It was only when I eventually said I see nothing, and everyone was like WTF! that I realised that seeing black fuzzy white noise in your head isn't the norm . I also have face blindness, though I can seem to recognise faces eventually if I see a lot of a person. Took me about 2 years to recognise neighbours out of context !

Are you my daughter?! Because she has exactly the same thing, and describes it in exactly the way you do. She only realised it a couple of years ago.

She says, for instance, that she can't picture her living room if she's not in it. She can describe it, she knows exactly what's in it and where, but she can't picture it. Yet she draws beautifully and is the best artist by far in the family.

What's sad for her is she finds it hard to remember happy times without the visuals, which is particularly hard when she wants to remember her dad, who died when she was in her early 20s. So she videos things a lot, when we're together. Just a few seconds here and there, but then she can look back at them and remember outings/events/holidays properly.

I have stupidly lucid dreams, but no ability to visualise if asked- same as you can't imagine a field with flowers and actually 'see' it- I close my eyes and there is only blackness. But my dreams are stupidly realistic and lucid, and I can go back into one if I have to get up to the bathroom.

It’s so interesting. Is it the same with say your doctors surgery? Do you remember aspects of it and build a memory from that, without an image?

I agree with others that when I close my eyes it is just darkness looking at the inside of my eye lids. But if I am asked to visualise DD’s bedroom, I can imagine it pretty clearly. I may not be able to tell you in perfect detail, for example which teddy bear sits next to which one on top of her wardrobe but I can clearly picture them as a colourful, tightly packed group in my mind.

I have never thought much about what others see. But it’s fascinating stuff.

@XenoBitch I can’t hallucinate! I spent a lot of time in my youth taking mushrooms and acid and never saw a thing, I did however have mad trips, I remember one in particular where I realised what the meaning of the universe was and got very excited trying to explain it to my boyfriend at the time who was equally beaned. 😂

So what happens when you remember something that only very recently happened - e.g you're sitting at a table in a restaurant and someone asks "how did you get here" - do you "remember" e.g. sitting on the bus or parking and are able to visualise it or does the moment you walk away from something you can't visualise it at all? E.g. if I park somewhere busy I "remember" where I am by what the surroundings look like e.g. Big tree, third row back. Can you not visualise, say, what your own car looks like? If I couldn't do that Id never find it again-I'm crap with cars so "Ford focus" etc would mean nothing to me -if I had to describe it I could only say "Small and red" -I'd need to see it to recognise it!

I find it so strange-how can you remember people when they are not in front of you if you can't visualise their faces?

[quote ofwarren]@SweetBabyCheeses99 When you say just a concept, what do you mean?
If I imagine myself at the beach, it isn't a concept of a beach. I can see the sea and the waves, I can see moving pictures as though I'm there. I can imagine the sounds and the smells that go with it too. I can make it look like I want. I can get up and walk around. It looks very realistic.[/quote]
This blows my mind. Surely this is unusual in the detail of it?

[quote Aphantasia]@NoSquirrels but i can’t picture it that’s the point! I can describe it because I remember the observations I’ve made in the past when looking at it but there’s nothing visual there. I used to know a girl who was registered blind and had very limited sight who could see sounds. There’s a name for it but I can’t remember, but she used to describe thing like what the sound of an ambulance siren looked like. She said I appeared in the lower left quadrant of her vision as a red jagged shape that pulsed with the pitch of the siren. I have no idea of what it would be like to experience sounds visually, same way I have no idea what it would be like to mentally visualise I guess[/quote]
Synaesthesia.

I don’t see anything in my minds eye. But I’m creative and plan things in my head as to how I want things to look, but they are thoughts not pictures