Why is plastic tat even allowed to be produced and sold?

[Bbnel]

Like the stuff that comes in party bags and last 24 hours? With the state of the climate surely these sort of things (and many other products I am sure) should be banned worldwide? I am sure it’s not that straightforward, and is not as easy as just banning it. And there is probably an endless list of other things that could be banned. Just with Xmas coming up and all the stocking fillers etc I am just feeling a bit sad that we are still pushing this consumerism worldwide

if you try a plastic ration it would end up with poor kids suffering
Surely uncontrolled climate change and oceans full of plastic will also end up with poor kids suffering?

Supermarkets should make loose fruit and veg the same price as packages

This isn’t as straight forward as it sounds. There’s a trade off between food packaging and food waste. Take away all food packing and food waste goes up massively.

Do we need to go back to growing more veg ourselves? In gardens and allotments.

Yes climate change will affect poor children in poor countries first

@Bbnel - we definitely do need to go back to growing stuff ourselves if possible. Full allotment type gardens maybe not realistic for many, but you know, every little helps.

The best thing to grow are herbs and fruit. Those don’t last long after picking so require a lot of fast transport, and most are bushes or non annual so once planted last year on year. They are also usually expensive to buy

@ MrsGeralt.in more recent time,actually no, I dont buy things wrapped in plastic.More to the point,there are now a number of environment friendly toy websites,you could choose to buy a toy.why do people always look for an excuse to buy plastic stuff?

@Bbnel

Do we need to go back to growing more veg ourselves? In gardens and allotments.

Yes climate change will affect poor children in poor countries first

We actually need to improve the living standards of poorer countries. Not much will change for them otherwise, in all senses.

It’s silly to think we can feed ourselves. We should probably live MORE densely, so no back gardens and probably no easy access to allotments.

Agriculture already gives amazing economies of scale anyway

@CheshireChat

I agree that people should generally just buy less and think before they buy, but tat is really relative, isn't it. I have playmobil sets in the house that get a lot less interest than a couple of old McDonald's toys or the disgusting 'squishy fishy'.

I agree, I was going to say this too. For his last birthday DS asked for a huge Jurassic Park dinosaur that cost £50 (it was on sale some places for £70, actually!) and I swear he has played with it once.

The plastic parachute man we possibly paid £1 for in B&Ms he and his brother have played with for hours and hours this year. I guess it could still be made of something more eco friendly like wood or stone I guess though.

In general YANBU though.

It's consumerism. We just need to all buy less. Why do we need stocking fillers? Why do we need to buy a new poppy because it's rememberance day or buy a new pudsey pin because it's children in need. I cringe when the children's school talked about how bad disposable plastic is, and then turn around selling wristbands and pins for charity events. It's just all hypocritical.

I don't think all plastic should be banned. Some plastic toys like Lego or Playmobil last forever. But yes they are more expensive to buy in the first place.

I don't know what we can do to stop the association between celebrations and plastic tat. It's not just Christmas, it's Halloween, birthdays, Valentine's, Easter. Every occasion marked with a whole aisle full of tat in supermarkets and shops like Home Bargains, or things like those awful balloon arches which are just landfill.

It's easy to say don't buy the tat but that's not the solution to it all is it. it's far more difficult to tackle the idea that a lot of people have that you are depriving your children or not celebrating properly without all the associated tat.

What’s wrong with a stocking? There are plenty of things you can put in a stocking that aren’t plastic tat. So far my list for the DC includes socks/tights, chocolate, mug, gloves/mittens, small books, stationary, playing cards, toothbrush, satsuma, all things they actually need or will consume although I admit maybe not that exciting to small kids.

Do they need chocolates? Or a new mug every year? Or gloves and mittens? Or playing cards. Books should be from a library. How much stationary do you need?

We have the same mugs from 10 years ago. DC has only needs new gloves when they grow out of them, so possibly a pair every 3 or 4 years. Playing cards we have the same pack since maybe 20 years ago.

Most of the stuff I see when people lists as essentials in stocking aren't essential. They might be 'needed' but you certainly don't need new every year.

(We all buy tat presents and I won't stand on the moral high ground and say mine aren't contributing to the environmental problems).

if you try a plastic ration it would end up with poor kids suffering
Globally almost half the world’s children live in countries at extremely high risk of climate change impacts, and all the world’s children are at risk of impacts: www.unicef.org/reports/climate-crisis-child-rights-crisis

I mean even socks and pants in stockings are wasteful. You don't need a new pack every year. Unless you really are buying one new pair of pants, instead of a multipack.

Small children might need new pants and socks, they grow like trees. Otherwise yes, agreed.

I don’t know what solution there is to tat consumerism. Make life nicer all round so key celebrations like Easter, Valentine’s, Halloween etc don’t need extra decor tat to feel special, because life is special? Said something similar on the dog poo thread: we live in a tight-fisted miserable country being ground down by austerity, I can totally see the mindset of “let’s buy a balloon and let the kids have fun”.

Mind you even pancake day, the very vision of “make do and mend” and use up your cupboards, turns into a plastic tat fest: shake-up bottles of mix, “kits”, squeezy Jif lemons.

Its not just children that use plastic tat though is it. There are plenty of frivolous and pointless single use items out there.

100% cotton clothing isn't always expensive. Lidl, primark and sainsburys all sell clothes which are 100% cotton for example.
Cotton is also an environmental disaster that uses vast amounts of water. The answer is less of everything, not “switch from this bad thing to the other bad thing, but keep buying things”.

Oh yes let's all have an allotment. Looks like my DC will be getting scurvy then because green fingered I am not.

@hotmeatymilk

100% cotton clothing isn't always expensive. Lidl, primark and sainsburys all sell clothes which are 100% cotton for example. Cotton is also an environmental disaster that uses vast amounts of water. The answer is less of everything, not “switch from this bad thing to the other bad thing, but keep buying things”.

You also need to have better quality and lower personal standards. School shirts in the 1950s were made out of thick durable flannel. They were also washed every few weeks so they lasted. I'm not sure people now are willing to put up with scratchy material that stinks by half term.

What’s wrong with a stocking? There are plenty of things you can put in a stocking that aren’t plastic tat. So far my list for the DC includes socks/tights, chocolate, mug, gloves/mittens, small books, stationary, playing cards, toothbrush, satsuma, all things they actually need or will consume although I admit maybe not that exciting to small kids.

You've exactly proven my point. Every single person has their reasons for overconsumption which they feel are good reasons.

Cotton is incredibly bad for the environment. It takes TEN THOUSAND litres of water to produce 1kg of cotton. That water is then contaminated.

Switching to cotton isn't the answer. Buying stuff new should be a last resort, when you actually need it. Not just because.

So much changed during Covid because we all had to change (not consumerism I realise, people were still buying stuff, but other changes) and it was interesting to see how we can change if we really have to. But it needs to be a collective effort

@hotmeatymilk

100% cotton clothing isn't always expensive. Lidl, primark and sainsburys all sell clothes which are 100% cotton for example. Cotton is also an environmental disaster that uses vast amounts of water. The answer is less of everything, not “switch from this bad thing to the other bad thing, but keep buying things”.

Yes but this was in response to a post saying "how will poor people cope with a plastic rationing. They can't afford cotton clothing"

Totally agree - best we can do is just not buy it!

I would love to be able to grow my own veggies but I live in a flat. We don't even have a balcony to do a few pots.
Allotments have waiting lists to get and you do have to trust that others won't destroy or steal. Unfortunately anything 'communal' seems to be a disaster these days - see my flats communal recycling bins overflowing with items that shouldn't be there.
I remember reading an article years ago as to why cheap furniture (like Ikea) and household things like lamps and cushions sold so much. It said it's often to do with so many people not having a secure home. Ie private renting. A council house (generally) gives your a home for life. You can fill it with decent furniture, decorate, put shelves and pictures on the walls etc.
In private renting leases are often 12 months. Not allowed to paint, put up pictures etc. So people buy the decorative stuff like cushions to make their home look and feel nice. Often though after the 12 months it's time to move on. Usually not because the tenant wants to but things like landlords selling up, raising rent, deciding to rent to their second cousin or whatever.
The tenants usually are on a budget - got to find another deposit etc and can't afford a proper moving van. They can only move what can fit in a small van or the back of a car. So the cheap furniture gets left behind, the bits that made the place they live a home get chucked because they can't move everything to a new place.
And then the cycle carries on.
My grandparents lived in a council house. They never had to move. They pretty much had solid furniture when they moved in until the day they passed away (50 years essentially). My parents have lived in their house since 1974. Some furniture has changed over the years. New sofas etc but they have a lot of stuff they have owned and used for 40 years.

My DD’s stocking will mostly be filled with quality art supplies to replenish things she has run out of. I suppose art is not technically essential, but it is something she loves and I do believe art has value. She will also get some chocolate and I bought one fidget toy which happens to be made out of metal. I researched the fidget toy and found one with good reviews for multiple ways of playability and long term durability.

Each item has been selected for its quality and long-term use. However, even the best alcohol markers are made with plastic and I haven’t researched the particular factories of manufacture to make sure workers are treated well. I have not looked into the sourcing for the pigments for each color of paint. Chocolate is an ethical minefield.

@ChildrenGrowingUpTooFast

What’s wrong with a stocking? There are plenty of things you can put in a stocking that aren’t plastic tat. So far my list for the DC includes socks/tights, chocolate, mug, gloves/mittens, small books, stationary, playing cards, toothbrush, satsuma, all things they actually need or will consume although I admit maybe not that exciting to small kids.

Do they need chocolates? Or a new mug every year? Or gloves and mittens? Or playing cards. Books should be from a library. How much stationary do you need?

We have the same mugs from 10 years ago. DC has only needs new gloves when they grow out of them, so possibly a pair every 3 or 4 years. Playing cards we have the same pack since maybe 20 years ago.

Most of the stuff I see when people lists as essentials in stocking aren't essential. They might be 'needed' but you certainly don't need new every year.

(We all buy tat presents and I won't stand on the moral high ground and say mine aren't contributing to the environmental problems).

Fuck me christmas must be miserable in your house. I’m not going to apologies for treating my kids to some chocolate coins at Christmas!

And yes, they need gloves, I wouldn’t be buying them otherwise. And yes I’ll buy fun stationary to encourage my kids to draw and practice their writing because I believe that’s important too.

They’re growing out of their current tights and socks so is it ok if I buy them some more and put them in a stocking?

And we don’t currently have a pack of cards.

Is that ok with you?