UK Passport office. Passport for sixteen year old. Blunder on their part...

[beigebrownblue]

Not planning to go abroad, but DD will need a passport to go on A-Level field trip when it comes around so thought we would tick it off list.

She mainly did the application herself.
Went carefully through the list of people who could verify it online.

Lined up senior staff member who we'd asked for permission.

Verification email sent.

Rejected by passport office.

Explained once on the telephone last week.
Said they would get back to me in twenty four hours.

Sent again.
Rejected again.

Phoned up to complain.
Despite being a senior staff member who has known DD for the past six years in and out of school...as extra curricular stuff etc.

Passport office rep says 'no you can't use that as ...this person doesn't 'hang out with your DD out of school'.

I'm gobsmacked.

This application has now taken four months at least and they sent DD a letter saying if it is not verified in ten days we will lose the fee. (and have to start again presumably).

I literally don't have anyone else to verify.
Can't ask G.P as they are not doing it understandably due to Covid.
Dentist not doing it either.

Asked a few friends but can't use them as one doesn't have passport and the other does'nt have one of the professions stated on list.

Honestly, why isn't a senior staff member at secondary school good enough?

Do they assume everyone has a doctor or G.P in the family?

Anyone else had this,
it is a simple matter of clicking a link to verify photo.
I know the staff member at school said she had known DD for required number of years so

WHAT IS THE PROBLEM?

@Leftbutcameback

If you don’t have any luck (and even if you do tbh) I would email your MP. That’s the kind of casework they are there for. It’s really poor, especially how they’ve handled your complaint.

Gosh. My M.P's wife was in charge of the Test and Trace fiasco, cost millions of pounds. Also supported the Universal Credit cut.

Democracy in Action...

But good suggestion on the face of it. Just wrong M.P. Doesn't care.

@CoronaPeroni

I don't understand why the counter signatory need to know the applicant on a personal basis? It's not a job application, it's just an identification by a professional to say that the person in the photo is the applicant. I haven't applied for a passport recently but is this something new? In the past the counter signatory had to enter their professional registration so a TA or builder etc wouldn't cut it.

No, I don't either, seems potty doesn't it?

The signatory has to be " a person of good standing in the community".

I suspect the objection is not to My X's teaching role , but because something else in his private history that disqualifies him.; but for obvious reasons the passport office can't say so because it would breach DPP.

Last time I renewed mine, the local pharmacist countersigned for me.

Is it because the teacher didn't fill the email form in?

Years ago, in the 90's, when I was applying for my first passport at 17, I got one of my old teachers to fill it in. I sent my brother into school with it and he happily obliged as I didn't know anyone else who could have done it. Personally I think it's ridiculous that they haven't accepted it, OP. If anyone can verify who your DD, it would be someone who had taught her at school!

Good idea upthread for your DD to think about her friends parents. Accountant, nurse, teacher, civil servant, pharmacist...anything like that? Or how about grandparents friends? Or if you've got siblings, their friends? I don't have any close friends in any of the listed professions but my sister has a good friend who is a civil servant and recognises my daughter so that'd be who I'd turn to (through my sister as I don't know her well personally).

@2bazookas

The signatory has to be " a person of good standing in the community".

I suspect the objection is not to My X's teaching role , but because something else in his private history that disqualifies him.; but for obvious reasons the passport office can't say so because it would breach DPP.

Last time I renewed mine, the local pharmacist countersigned for me.

That would be my other thought as to the objection, tbh

This is bizarre. As a teacher I regularly counter-sign passport applications and do so regularly, despite not hanging around with the students after the bell…

@beigebrownblue

The list clearly says teachers. After six years of secondary school, DD having known teachers and taken part in every ex curricular activity under the sun how come this isn't classed as knowing someone 'personally'?

There can't be many parents who go to the pub with their child's teachers surely.

And no, not everyone has personal friends who are lawyers etc....!

It means teachers who know you personally. Like if your neighbour is a teacher and sends your DD a selection box every year. We always got the HT who lived next door to sign mine. It's not the Passport Office's mistake.

I'm running out of steam.
Hope the last shot works.
head of club that DD used to go to...

@2bazookas

The signatory has to be " a person of good standing in the community".

I suspect the objection is not to My X's teaching role , but because something else in his private history that disqualifies him.; but for obvious reasons the passport office can't say so because it would breach DPP.

Last time I renewed mine, the local pharmacist countersigned for me.

That wouldn't be the reason. Aside from the fact that the teacher will be enhanced DBS'd to within an inch of his life. He probably, as others have said, wrote he knew the applicant professionally (because he does) The "hang out after school" comment is because the PO person was talking to a 16 year old.

Whether the MP cares or not isn’t massively relevant - someone in their office will just send your email onto the passport office, who will have to respond. It’s part of my job in the public sector organisation I work for. They get hundreds of email from constituents and have a process in place. It means (in my area at least) any complaints get dealt with more quickly just because it’s on an MP email. That’s why it’s useful.

I agree op is exponetially more difficult for economically weaker citizens.

I wish there was an office you could go to in person to bypass this counter signatory spiel.

@2bazookas

The signatory has to be " a person of good standing in the community".

I suspect the objection is not to My X's teaching role , but because something else in his private history that disqualifies him.; but for obvious reasons the passport office can't say so because it would breach DPP.

Last time I renewed mine, the local pharmacist countersigned for me.

What a senior staff member at the secondary school and the safeguarding lead?

@Leftbutcameback

Whether the MP cares or not isn’t massively relevant - someone in their office will just send your email onto the passport office, who will have to respond. It’s part of my job in the public sector organisation I work for. They get hundreds of email from constituents and have a process in place. It means (in my area at least) any complaints get dealt with more quickly just because it’s on an MP email. That’s why it’s useful.

Ours doesn't reply. No point.

We used the local vicar for a small donation to the church roof

@Leftbutcameback

Whether the MP cares or not isn’t massively relevant - someone in their office will just send your email onto the passport office, who will have to respond. It’s part of my job in the public sector organisation I work for. They get hundreds of email from constituents and have a process in place. It means (in my area at least) any complaints get dealt with more quickly just because it’s on an MP email. That’s why it’s useful.

It's always been the same in any CS dept. The officer answering will still tell her the form needs to be completed correctly. She'll just get the reply from the MPs office with his rubber stamped signature. As we know.

@PaulRuddsWife

Is it because the teacher didn't fill the email form in?

Years ago, in the 90's, when I was applying for my first passport at 17, I got one of my old teachers to fill it in. I sent my brother into school with it and he happily obliged as I didn't know anyone else who could have done it. Personally I think it's ridiculous that they haven't accepted it, OP. If anyone can verify who your DD, it would be someone who had taught her at school!

They filled it in, they sent me an email to say what they have said. And I do trust them enough to trust that.

We did DS1's renewal last week and he needed this because his last passport had a photo of him aged about 10 and he's now 16. My friend who is a doctor signed his but the lists specifically says doctors cannot sign unless they know you personally rather than professionally.

This is the list - its pretty broad - a manager of a limited company basically covers anyone who works in a vaguely managerial role:

accountant
airline pilot
articled clerk of a limited company
assurance agent of recognised company
bank or building society official
barrister
chairman or director of a limited company
chiropodist
commissioner for oaths
councillor, for example local or county
civil servant (permanent)
dentist
director, manager or personnel officer of a VAT-registered company
engineer with professional qualifications
financial services intermediary, for example a stockbroker or insurance broker
fire service official
funeral director
insurance agent (full time) of a recognised company
journalist
Justice of the Peace
legal secretary (fellow or associate member of the Institute of Legal Secretaries and PAs)
licensee of a public house
local government officer
manager or personnel officer of a limited company
member, associate or fellow of a professional body
Member of Parliament
Merchant Navy officer
minister of a recognised religion (including Christian Science)
nurse (RGN or RMN)
officer of the armed services
optician
paralegal (certified paralegal, qualified paralegal or associate member of the Institute of Paralegals)
person with honours, for example an OBE or MBE
pharmacist
photographer (professional)
police officer
Post Office official
president or secretary of a recognised organisation
Salvation Army officer
social worker
solicitor
surveyor
teacher or lecturer
trade union officer
travel agent (qualified)
valuer or auctioneer (fellow or associate members of the incorporated society)
Warrant Officers and Chief Petty Officers

@wetpebbles

We used the local vicar for a small donation to the church roof

One way of doing things. We don't go to church though.

A manager of a limited company means that someone who works as a manager at sainsburys or Top Shop would do for example. What jobs do your friends do?

@cloudtree

We did DS1's renewal last week and he needed this because his last passport had a photo of him aged about 10 and he's now 16. My friend who is a doctor signed his but the lists specifically says doctors cannot sign unless they know you personally rather than professionally.

This is the list - its pretty broad - a manager of a limited company basically covers anyone who works in a vaguely managerial role:

accountant
airline pilot
articled clerk of a limited company
assurance agent of recognised company
bank or building society official
barrister
chairman or director of a limited company
chiropodist
commissioner for oaths
councillor, for example local or county
civil servant (permanent)
dentist
director, manager or personnel officer of a VAT-registered company
engineer with professional qualifications
financial services intermediary, for example a stockbroker or insurance broker
fire service official
funeral director
insurance agent (full time) of a recognised company
journalist
Justice of the Peace
legal secretary (fellow or associate member of the Institute of Legal Secretaries and PAs)
licensee of a public house
local government officer
manager or personnel officer of a limited company
member, associate or fellow of a professional body
Member of Parliament
Merchant Navy officer
minister of a recognised religion (including Christian Science)
nurse (RGN or RMN)
officer of the armed services
optician
paralegal (certified paralegal, qualified paralegal or associate member of the Institute of Paralegals)
person with honours, for example an OBE or MBE
pharmacist
photographer (professional)
police officer
Post Office official
president or secretary of a recognised organisation
Salvation Army officer
social worker
solicitor
surveyor
teacher or lecturer
trade union officer
travel agent (qualified)
valuer or auctioneer (fellow or associate members of the incorporated society)
Warrant Officers and Chief Petty Officers

Interesting, yes, I had seen and read this obviously as had my DD before she applied.

Only trouble is not a single one of these people could be said to 'know my DD personally'.

Tried teacher as I said, but that didn't suit the passport office. Despite the fact that she was at that school for five years plus.

So what friends do you have who know your DD and what are their jobs?

I'll update this thread at a later date re my latest attempt. Sigh.

Also what the passport office response is.
Once again thanks for suggestions. Even if they haven' t solved the issue it did make me feel better!

So thanks!

@cloudtree

We did DS1's renewal last week and he needed this because his last passport had a photo of him aged about 10 and he's now 16. My friend who is a doctor signed his but the lists specifically says doctors cannot sign unless they know you personally rather than professionally.

This is the list - its pretty broad - a manager of a limited company basically covers anyone who works in a vaguely managerial role:

accountant
airline pilot
articled clerk of a limited company
assurance agent of recognised company
bank or building society official
barrister
chairman or director of a limited company
chiropodist
commissioner for oaths
councillor, for example local or county
civil servant (permanent)
dentist
director, manager or personnel officer of a VAT-registered company
engineer with professional qualifications
financial services intermediary, for example a stockbroker or insurance broker
fire service official
funeral director
insurance agent (full time) of a recognised company
journalist
Justice of the Peace
legal secretary (fellow or associate member of the Institute of Legal Secretaries and PAs)
licensee of a public house
local government officer
manager or personnel officer of a limited company
member, associate or fellow of a professional body
Member of Parliament
Merchant Navy officer
minister of a recognised religion (including Christian Science)
nurse (RGN or RMN)
officer of the armed services
optician
paralegal (certified paralegal, qualified paralegal or associate member of the Institute of Paralegals)
person with honours, for example an OBE or MBE
pharmacist
photographer (professional)
police officer
Post Office official
president or secretary of a recognised organisation
Salvation Army officer
social worker
solicitor
surveyor
teacher or lecturer
trade union officer
travel agent (qualified)
valuer or auctioneer (fellow or associate members of the incorporated society)
Warrant Officers and Chief Petty Officers

Oh, and just to add, at least half if not three quarters of this list are knocked out due to Covid regulations. As they can't do this in person.

I totally get this is not an emergency concern, however it is relevant as if not done in ten days passport office are threatening to keep the fee and we start the whole thing again.