UK Passport office. Passport for sixteen year old. Blunder on their part...

[beigebrownblue]

Not planning to go abroad, but DD will need a passport to go on A-Level field trip when it comes around so thought we would tick it off list.

She mainly did the application herself.
Went carefully through the list of people who could verify it online.

Lined up senior staff member who we'd asked for permission.

Verification email sent.

Rejected by passport office.

Explained once on the telephone last week.
Said they would get back to me in twenty four hours.

Sent again.
Rejected again.

Phoned up to complain.
Despite being a senior staff member who has known DD for the past six years in and out of school...as extra curricular stuff etc.

Passport office rep says 'no you can't use that as ...this person doesn't 'hang out with your DD out of school'.

I'm gobsmacked.

This application has now taken four months at least and they sent DD a letter saying if it is not verified in ten days we will lose the fee. (and have to start again presumably).

I literally don't have anyone else to verify.
Can't ask G.P as they are not doing it understandably due to Covid.
Dentist not doing it either.

Asked a few friends but can't use them as one doesn't have passport and the other does'nt have one of the professions stated on list.

Honestly, why isn't a senior staff member at secondary school good enough?

Do they assume everyone has a doctor or G.P in the family?

Anyone else had this,
it is a simple matter of clicking a link to verify photo.
I know the staff member at school said she had known DD for required number of years so

WHAT IS THE PROBLEM?

@Gliderx

What do your neighbours do? I'd just grab one of them who does something which sounds vaguely respectable.

There aren't many or any of my neighbours who I believe do something which sounds 'vaguely respectable'...!

@RedCarsGoFaster

Honestly, stop trying to make a complaint and just find a mate who runs the or own business, works for the council etc - you don't have time to piss around here.

Does DD go to any out of schools events or clubs etc.

Bitch about it later!

I don't have a family friend who runs their own business, works for the council, a friendly vicar, a retired social worker....I just don't!

I've never understood this requirement. I think it dates back to the days when everybody knew each other in small communities, so the local doctor, solicitor, district nurse would be on nodding terms in the street, and as people were less geographically mobile had probably known you from when you were knee-high.

It's also quite classist. Middle class people would likely have friends who would qualify, people in deprived areas not so much. It also suggests that people like supermarket workers, plumbers etc are less trustworthy in terms of signing than people with more 'respectable' careers.
Also it's a bit meaningless if the list includes 'company director'. Pretty much anybody dodgy can, and does, have the right to sign up as a director of a limited company, unless they have been banned from doing so.
Do you know anybody who works in financial services? I think bank manager is on the list, so maybe anybody in that area with manager in the title might be OK?

It's only a first adult passport if they haven't had a child passport. If they have a child passport it's done as a renewal and doesn't need a countersignature unless they have changed drastically since the last photo

Maybe it's changed as I thought we'd be fine but it says:

You must get your paper form and one of your 2 print photos signed if you’re applying for a:

first adult passport

www.gov.uk/countersigning-passport-applications

I don't know if she looks the same - I think so but she's cut her hair and dyed it since.

We both have current passports and she has a child one so should be in system as it were - still best to know now and have a think who we can ask if it's needed.

OP I'd see if you can find someone else to sign.

Honestly in this day and age when identity can be verified online / via NI number / any number of different ways, it's crazy that to apply for a passport you still have to get someone considered an "upstanding member of society" to sign to say you are who you say you are! Sorry you're in this position OP. Hopefully you can find someone else to sign your DDs form.

OK, let's start with who you know (rather than who you don't know).

What do your friends/neighbours do?

@inferiorCatSlave

It's only a first adult passport if they haven't had a child passport. If they have a child passport it's done as a renewal and doesn't need a countersignature unless they have changed drastically since the last photo

Maybe it's changed as I thought we'd be fine but it says:

You must get your paper form and one of your 2 print photos signed if you’re applying for a:

first adult passport

www.gov.uk/countersigning-passport-applications

I don't know if she looks the same - I think so but she's cut her hair and dyed it since.

We both have current passports and she has a child one so should be in system as it were - still best to know now and have a think who we can ask if it's needed.

OP I'd see if you can find someone else to sign.

But a first adult passport is when you've never had a passport before as per the info I posted above. If you have had a child passport you've done all the verification before. You only need a countersignature if your appearance is significantly different from the old photo

OK
so, how long have you lived where you live?

you don't have to be friends with the person, they don't have to 'know' you, they just need to say the person in the photo is actually you. (or in this case your dd)

So, corner shop?
Anyone you know who works for the council?
Anyone who is eg coach or runs brownies (your dd doesn't have to go there, they just need to know who she is.)
Any TAs from primary school who live in your area (again, they just have to be able to say the photo is her)

Ok dementedpixie then it's random. I had to get it countersigned even before they saw his photo, no reason given. Anyway 2 more years it's DS problem and I won't need to get involved thank goodness.

@Alicetheowl

I've never understood this requirement. I think it dates back to the days when everybody knew each other in small communities, so the local doctor, solicitor, district nurse would be on nodding terms in the street, and as people were less geographically mobile had probably known you from when you were knee-high.

It's also quite classist. Middle class people would likely have friends who would qualify, people in deprived areas not so much. It also suggests that people like supermarket workers, plumbers etc are less trustworthy in terms of signing than people with more 'respectable' careers.
Also it's a bit meaningless if the list includes 'company director'. Pretty much anybody dodgy can, and does, have the right to sign up as a director of a limited company, unless they have been banned from doing so.
Do you know anybody who works in financial services? I think bank manager is on the list, so maybe anybody in that area with manager in the title might be OK?

Thank you so much for this comment. Yes, think it upset me because of this reason actually, made me feel really isolated.

I've come up with someone else, from old drama school who I hope can do it.

It is doubly difficult because of Covid.

Honestly, sometimes I wonder why I bother helping my DD, she doesn't seem to appreciate it anyway!

@Bramshott

Honestly in this day and age when identity can be verified online / via NI number / any number of different ways, it's crazy that to apply for a passport you still have to get someone considered an "upstanding member of society" to sign to say you are who you say you are! Sorry you're in this position OP. Hopefully you can find someone else to sign your DDs form.

I dunno.....none of those things are photo ID. When you are establishing photo ID, you need someone who knows you to say "yes this is a photo of Mary Briggs and I know its Mary Briggs because I KNOW her" Numbers don't establish that the person presenting those numbers is you.

@steppemum

OK so, how long have you lived where you live?

you don't have to be friends with the person, they don't have to 'know' you, they just need to say the person in the photo is actually you. (or in this case your dd)

So, corner shop?
Anyone you know who works for the council?
Anyone who is eg coach or runs brownies (your dd doesn't have to go there, they just need to know who she is.)
Any TAs from primary school who live in your area (again, they just have to be able to say the photo is her)

Reasonable suggestions, but as we've clarified the difficulty is that they are supposed to know the child 'personally' so TA's wouldn't count!

Ridiculous I find especially with the last few years we've had where young people haven't really been anywhere very much outside school due to Covid and youth clubs shutting down etc...

Corner shop. Yes, reasonable suggestion but I don't wish to share my child's details with them!

The passport office sends the person an email plus photo and they have to answer a few simple questions.
It is not complicated to do but because as someone said of archaic rules, unfortunately really quite difficult.

RE: helping DD

Just a thing about needing to get darned pesky annoying thing off the old list.

@Bramshott

Honestly in this day and age when identity can be verified online / via NI number / any number of different ways, it's crazy that to apply for a passport you still have to get someone considered an "upstanding member of society" to sign to say you are who you say you are! Sorry you're in this position OP. Hopefully you can find someone else to sign your DDs form.

Thanks for this comment. Actually the whole thing really upset me. Just so unbelievably difficult.

Are any of DDs friends mums nurses? Chances are one of them is

but as we've clarified the difficulty is that they are supposed to know the child 'personally' so TA's wouldn't count!

I said a TA who lives in your area.
TAs, especially at primary school, often live in and work close to school. If they live in your area, and you know them by sight, then they are a neighbour/ know you out of school.

Again, they only have to be able to confirm the person in the photo is dd.

What do her friend's parents do? Surely one of them must have a job on the list?

@Gliderx

OK, let's start with who you know (rather than who you don't know).

What do your friends/neighbours do?

A note of humour here.

We are not on last name terms...mostly due to the stench of weed floating down the street on most days... dont' like to go into peoples' houses!

Think that if I asked anyone if they had a passport around here (requirement of signature) they might think I wanted to buy or sell one!

Not a question people would probably ask around here!

Same goes for 'what do you do for a living?

Guess people in more affluent areas can't imagine...I guess

@steppemum

but as we've clarified the difficulty is that they are supposed to know the child 'personally' so TA's wouldn't count!

I said a TA who lives in your area.
TAs, especially at primary school, often live in and work close to school. If they live in your area, and you know them by sight, then they are a neighbour/ know you out of school.

Again, they only have to be able to confirm the person in the photo is dd.

Sorry to appear as a nay sayer but there aren't any around here, and at school they were always advised along with teachers not to mix with kids outside school....as a matter of policy. Hence the difficulty with that...

Hoping to get a positive result from person I've come up with...

Guess if not DD will just have to fail her Biology A Level due to not being able to go on the field trip next year...

So much for social inclusion eh?

Thanks for your support anyway everyone

@Bramshott

Honestly in this day and age when identity can be verified online / via NI number / any number of different ways, it's crazy that to apply for a passport you still have to get someone considered an "upstanding member of society" to sign to say you are who you say you are! Sorry you're in this position OP. Hopefully you can find someone else to sign your DDs form.

We recently has an odd situation with a government issued travel pass.

Paper application required counter signtaory with old style list of people who'd known her two years on-line application had no such requirement they used other data.

It delayed her application and covid delays meant took 5 times as long to get pass so insead of a £1 it was costing £5 a day to get her into college - it added up.

But a first adult passport is when you've never had a passport before as per the info I posted above. If you have had a child passport you've done all the verification before. You only need a countersignature if your appearance is significantly different from the old photo

Fingers crossed it will go smoothly then.

I don't understand why the counter signatory need to know the applicant on a personal basis? It's not a job application, it's just an identification by a professional to say that the person in the photo is the applicant. I haven't applied for a passport recently but is this something new? In the past the counter signatory had to enter their professional registration so a TA or builder etc wouldn't cut it.

If you don’t have any luck (and even if you do tbh) I would email your MP. That’s the kind of casework they are there for. It’s really poor, especially how they’ve handled your complaint.